Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
Who's White?
- Thread starter R. Laevinus
- Start date
Well, from an evolutionary standpoint, all the varieties of people adapted to their environment. Darker skin was more useful in warm areas, lighter skin for colder climates. Body type, amount of fat, disease resistance, etc were also factors that changed depending on the environment. For example, sickle cell anemia is more common in people from the equatorial areas with a large mosquito population, since it offers resistance against malaria.
However, since humanity has been so mobile for so long, there's been enough mixing of genes that we're all basically mutts. It's a good thing, though. Mutts tend to be healthier.
As far as referring to the initial question, I just refer to people by their nation of origin, unless they make it known that they prefer otherwise. To me, it doesn't matter what color your skin is, I'll call you American or Canadian or French or British or whatever if that's where you reside.
However, since humanity has been so mobile for so long, there's been enough mixing of genes that we're all basically mutts. It's a good thing, though. Mutts tend to be healthier.
As far as referring to the initial question, I just refer to people by their nation of origin, unless they make it known that they prefer otherwise. To me, it doesn't matter what color your skin is, I'll call you American or Canadian or French or British or whatever if that's where you reside.
^ Haha!
I'm in a similar boat as you tZer...my dad was adopted, and he's a light skinned hairy short man with red hair. So he's some kind of mutt, just got no idea of what kind
Hey - I'm a light-skinned (formerly) reddish haired dude... Where was your dad around 1966?
From what I know about my bio-mom, she was darker skinned with dark hair - I am thinking Greek or Italian based on the sketchy description... But you'd never know it looking at my pasty visage! Just goes to show ya...
My dad was in 2nd grade in 1966
OK - the search for the nature of my whiteness continues...
HAY GUIZ!!1!!1
Who thinks we should try and get Doc Cheese in here when he's unbanned? Seriously? After reading that fiasco of a Libya thread, I have to say I'm starting to get curious as to how he sees the world; maybe, if we can get him in here, his eyes might get opened a bit. For all the jokes in here, I have to say that I've learned a lot. Maybe we can help the guy out a bit?
P.S. - Who are those Gribbles you speak of? Sounds like some children's cartoon thing.
Who thinks we should try and get Doc Cheese in here when he's unbanned? Seriously? After reading that fiasco of a Libya thread, I have to say I'm starting to get curious as to how he sees the world; maybe, if we can get him in here, his eyes might get opened a bit. For all the jokes in here, I have to say that I've learned a lot. Maybe we can help the guy out a bit?
P.S. - Who are those Gribbles you speak of? Sounds like some children's cartoon thing.
You mean it's not just about that box on job applications? I kid, I kid 
My family always thought we were Sicilian from my pop's side and Greek/Irish from my mom's side. One of my brothers did some digging and found that some of the history through our fathers name led back to Albanian Jews who left in exile. Being a few generations down the tree and in the states, I don't think we'll ever really know unless we did that whole DNA analysis thing.
One thing I always found hysterical when I was playing with a drummer who is black was that he would say that he was blushing?! I used to give him a hard time since my white @$$ couldn't "see" that. LOL We enjoyed much banter exploiting stereotypes without offending each other.
My family always thought we were Sicilian from my pop's side and Greek/Irish from my mom's side. One of my brothers did some digging and found that some of the history through our fathers name led back to Albanian Jews who left in exile. Being a few generations down the tree and in the states, I don't think we'll ever really know unless we did that whole DNA analysis thing.
One thing I always found hysterical when I was playing with a drummer who is black was that he would say that he was blushing?! I used to give him a hard time since my white @$$ couldn't "see" that. LOL We enjoyed much banter exploiting stereotypes without offending each other.
BTW Lavenius...it's Asian, not Oriental. I believe Oriental refers to things, while Asian refers to people. I don't want jive or maki coming in here and raising hayul
I grew up in a neighborhood that because of "White Flight" after a local dam burst followed by the Watts Riots was mostly Black with the local minority being Japanese who moved into the area after being interned in WWII. The first time I heard the "oriental refers to a thing" line was my freshman year at college, which was also my first time around "White' people other then teachers.
Years later when I started on the internet suddenly non-Americans were calling people Orientals. So as I was taught from my first college lesson I posted my version of "BTW Lavenius...it's Asian, not Oriental. I believe Oriental refers to things, while Asian refers to people."
So I came to learn that when mostly Britons at that time said "Asian" they were referring to Arabs and people from the Indian subcontinent. Meanwhile I had grown up with what i call the West Side Story rules where the character Arab was part of the White gang and Lebanese Corporal Klinger of MASH were White. Meanwhile Indians, Pakistanis... were also "White" unless their skin was too dark then they became "black
I agree race is more cultural and political then biological. In the case of America it didn't matter what you looked like it mattered what was the known race of the lowest ranking, for like of a better term, parent of a person. With Africans being on the bottom and Northern and Western Europeans on the top. So President Obama is Black because his dad had a lower rank then his mom. Sonja Sohn (Kima Griggs of The Wire), Sharon Leal of Boston Public, Ashanti, Amerie, Tiger Woods, Hines Ward... are Black because Black is below Asian in the America perception of the racial hieracy. After all when The US Military was segregated for half of the last century beside Japanese Americans all the Asians, Latinos, Native Americans...everybody but Blacks were integrated
And what makes white people white?
Seriously, guys; let's leave the racism and the agendas and whatnot out of it, and have a lighthearted yet gainful discussion on what makes a person white or not-white. Understand, of course, that the term is not being used to imply any sort of superiority or anything like that.
The reason I ask such a potentially loaded question, fellow bassers, is that I was having a discussion in a bar last night (wish you were there, Quickie!
Me, I just figure that if you're not not-white, then you're white. What do you think? Is your definition of caucasian limited to a specific heritage or geographical area? Why?
Note: I am only 50% white, therefore I am permitted by the Intergalactic Political Correctness Cadre of Police Type People Who Like Political Correctness to initiate discussions on this sort of subject.
Note 2: If this starts to get nasty in any way though, it oughtta be closed down by the Mod Squad.
I did not read through all the pages, so I apologize if I repeat information. The person you were talking to is in some degree correct. Actually, the only "white" people are of English decent. It is not as well known, but the Irish were slaves as well. They were transported England to America as human livestock. When they tried to rebel, the Irish were hung by their hands and set on fire. Hands were then placed on display as a warning to everyone else. I am pretty sure the Italians were slaves as well, and if not, they were certainly looked down upon. Italians were also called N-bombs by people. Its a word that means to be of lower class, not of a certain race.
If you look at a birth or a marriage (I thought it was marriage, but it could easily be birth) certificate, I believe up until the 1930s (Maybe 1932 or 1934) in one of the eastern, southern states, when an Irish person was married, the certificate identified that person as being "colored."
This once said to me in a class, and I do not mean to stir anything up, it is purely educational... But, the Irish and Italians were deemed bigger trouble for English opposed to the black people as being second class. (I think it was due to their "whiteness" They worked and shared common grounds amongst the black slaves, but had the opportunity to break free since they did appear white). Before the movement of blacks against slavery, black people "knew their place" as to not revolt, so they were considered less of a threat. This lead to Irish/Italians (probably Hungarians - [but they were more passive. I remember a professor saying that his family dealt with the hardships because of the opportunities in America. His father almost cried in tears of happiness when they came to this country because there was running water facets here.] , and whoever else was here) to be considered "free" before the black people achieved that status.
I think the black slaves received a lot of heat when the newly considered "white" people were no longer to be treated as second class.
I am almost positive I got all my information correct, but do please mention something I may have not gotten on point or missed.
Partly true. "Criminals" (which included everyone from petty thieves just trying to eat to the Irish who rebelled against Cromwell) from both England and Ireland were transported as indentured servants.
Slavery in Britain and Ireland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Generally right. The point is that "race" is a relatively recent construct that only properly emerges in the nineteenth century (though it has precedents), relies on highly arbitrary criteria, and is highly political in purpose. The main function of race theory was to provide a "scientific" ideology to justify European domination of non-European peoples. Religion used to serve this role but as missionaries spread Christianity and Europe itself secularized this was no longer viable.
Once that ball was rolling, though, the question was what to do with the non-imperial/colonial peoples of Europe, like the Irish, the Italians and the Slavs. Some classified them as "white" but others wanted to exclude them.
What you got was two competing theories about race in general and whiteness in particular; in a more inclusive version, whiteness was defined more by the absence of African or Asian appearance; if you weren't black or yellow, you must be white.
But you also had the more exclusive version which wanted to define certain characteristics as quintessentially "white" and deny full "caucasian" status to peoples who didn't generally exhibit them; things like blond hair and blue eyes, a vertical forehead, etc. By that measure, Italians and Greeks with their dark hair and sloping profiles were not really "white."
What it really comes down to is the English, in particular, once they had decided that "race" was so essential to their superiority, not wanting to admit that the Irish were the same "race" as themselves. English influence spread the general idea to other countries (and you got Italian and Spanish scholars falling all over themselves trying to prove how "white" they were).
