• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

why 10s for bass?

#122
AlexanderB said:
I think rbonner has a good point. Even the "toughest" 15" speakers from three decades ago would have a hard time coping (heck, even surviving) with ever more powerful bass amps that started to show up after the SVT. They were designed to be with smaller tube amps, where big power handling was not a top priority. So you HAD to have many coils to distribute the heat.

/Alexander
Click to expand...
In 1969 the choices available for a 240 watt cab included eight 30 watt tens or four 75 watt fifteens. The only fifteens capable of handling that much power were EVs, Altecs and JBLs, which had a wholesale cost of about $40 each. The CTS drivers used by Ampeg in the SVT had a wholesale cost of about $12 each. Do the math, and figure out how large a 4x15 cab would have been, and you'll understand why Ampeg chose the route that they did.
 
#123
Jim Campbell said:
while i would agree that srv's work did not resemble the blues of the delta,piedmont,etc i would have to call bs on the kenny g comparison.....apples and platypus' would be more similar.....ive got a pic somewhere of albert playing w/srv ........if blues got watered down it didnt come from stevie
Click to expand...

+1 IMHO SRV pushed things into some new territory and that is as it should be. It is always tough to please everybody. There may still be some that consider any blues played on an electric guitar as something less than the blues.
 
#124
I only made it to page 2 of this. 2 words for the answer - transient response

Bigger doesn't necessarily mean it plays lower. More surface area is needed to accomplish reproducing the sound waves associated with lower frequency. You have approximately the same surface area with 2 10's as you do a single 15. Driver design plays as much as a role in the sound as enclosure design. But 10's have a better transient response, or in the bass player world "attack". They are able to respond much faster due to the reduced mass compared to a 15. The smaller surface area also (combined with the reduced mass) means that they are capable of resonating at a faster rate and therefor capable of reproducing higher frequencies than said 15.
I've heard 8 inch subwoofers that will put a 15 to shame and are capable of reproducing frequencies to the lower audible limit of the average persons hearing.

SGD Lutherie said:
Also, you can't hear 20Hz anyway.
Click to expand...
Maybe the average Joe can't, but I'm 32 and I can.:hyper:
 
#125
NKUSigEp said:
You DEFINITELY need to check out the search function. We don't need thread # 1,304,399,475,930 about the topic.
Click to expand...

At 7 pages thick now, this advice seems abit late. And with this many replies seems some folks wanted to discuss the topic....again. But yes hitting the search button is always good advice, just maybe sooner next time. :p

Oh, and I read all 7 pages, it was rather interesting reading overall, so not a total waste of space, lol.
 
#126
zagnut said:
But 10's have a better transient response, or in the bass player world "attack". They are able to respond much faster due to the reduced mass compared to a 15.
Click to expand...

Nope. Two things have a bearing on leading edge transient response - voice coil inductance and the moving mass to motor strength ratio. If the voice coil inductances are the same and the fifteen has a proportionally more powerful motor to compensate for the increased moving mass then it will have the same transient response as the ten.

Alex
 
#127
zagnut said:
I only made it to page 2 of this. 2 words for the answer - transient response

Bigger doesn't necessarily mean it plays lower. More surface area is needed to accomplish reproducing the sound waves associated with lower frequency. You have approximately the same surface area with 2 10's as you do a single 15. Driver design plays as much as a role in the sound as enclosure design. But 10's have a better transient response, or in the bass player world "attack". They are able to respond much faster due to the reduced mass compared to a 15. The smaller surface area also (combined with the reduced mass) means that they are capable of resonating at a faster rate and therefor capable of reproducing higher frequencies than said 15.
I've heard 8 inch subwoofers that will put a 15 to shame and are capable of reproducing frequencies to the lower audible limit of the average persons hearing.
Click to expand...

No offence to you man, cos stuff like this is presented in a pretty convincingly scientific manner, but people giving these false scientific explanations kinda proves how bigger grip this kinda BS has on the market.

Again, no offence meant by that, I used to think all sorts of silly crap that's been disproven, all due to what manufacturers and players alike say about gear and other sound tech phenomenons. I think I've probably learnt more by paying attention to the science on here then I ever did in any of the sound tech courses I ever went on.
 
#128
alexclaber said:
Nope. Two things have a bearing on leading edge transient response - voice coil inductance and the moving mass to motor strength ratio. If the voice coil inductances are the same and the fifteen has a proportionally more powerful motor to compensate for the increased moving mass then it will have the same transient response as the ten.

Alex
Click to expand...
+1. Driver size alone has virtually no affect on transient response.
 
#129
billfitzmaurice said:
+1. Driver size alone has virtually no affect on transient response.
Click to expand...

True. It just takes a larger distance for bigger drivers to "focus" their waves. You have to stand way back to hear them fully. This is why the best headphones are 56 feet wide - otherwise the low E waves wouldn't be fully developed yet. I haven't found any low B headphones yet.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Flarp Technolog
#132
greenboy said:
True. It just takes a larger distance for bigger drivers to "focus" their waves. You have to stand way back to hear them fully. This is why the best headphones are 56 feet wide - otherwise the low E waves wouldn't be fully developed yet. I haven't found any low B headphones yet.
Click to expand...

I heard Sennheiser are developing F#0 headphones because of the increasing popularity of electronic dub music.
 
#134
I think the main difference is in the cabinets, as in the are vented, but otherwise sealed. My guitar amp is completely open at the back an produces surprisingly little low end or a 12" drive. The ports in the cabinet are what give the low end.
 
#135
SwamiRob said:
I heard Sennheiser are developing F#0 headphones because of the increasing popularity of electronic dub music.
Click to expand...

No. They shelved that project because even among rich audiophiles the preferred listening room is usually not large enough to use them in, and thus the market niche was deemed non-lucrative. Also they were getting lawsuits from beta-testers who had to have neck and ear surgery.
 
#136
alexclaber said:
Nope. Two things have a bearing on leading edge transient response - voice coil inductance and the moving mass to motor strength ratio. If the voice coil inductances are the same and the fifteen has a proportionally more powerful motor to compensate for the increased moving mass then it will have the same transient response as the ten.

Alex
Click to expand...
I stand corrected

SwamiRob said:
No offence to you man, cos stuff like this is presented in a pretty convincingly scientific manner, but people giving these false scientific explanations kinda proves how bigger grip this kinda BS has on the market.
Click to expand...
No offense taken. It's been quite a few years since I've really gotten into the technical side of things concerning audio and your absolutely right. The misinformed nature of my post proves your point.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back