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why 10s for bass?

#102
billfitzmaurice said:
The mass market bass cab industry is mainly driven by two concerns: Will it sell? and Will we make our profit margin?
Whether it will sell boils down mainly to how it looks, and the accepted look is a cab stuffed with as many drivers as will fit in. What will deliver a profit is a cab with only woofers or one with woofers and a cheap tweeter, with the cab materials and design optimized for fast assembly with minimal cost of both parts and labor. What you're looking for does exist, but you won't find it in the lower price points.
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I am sorry to agree with you whole heartedly on this one.
I tend to bypass the low price point thing from the outset these days.
For years now I have not had conventional bass gear (amp and pre) and had cabs made.
These cabs sounded better than anything I have heard so far, but they were not made to go very loud, which made them usable for acoustic gigs and recording only, really
The cabs i use at the moment are the only "conventional bass equipment" I own.( apart from a gk combo for little carry around type of gigs)
Given what I said before , would you know of any cabs that may fit the bill?
I was going to get some meyersound, but would prefer passive cabs-ideally one, with not too many drive units, rather than two, to avoid any phase trouble. :)
 
#103
billfitzmaurice said:
-1. You have identified some of the reasons why bass sometimes is not heard as well closer to the source than further away, but the source has nothing to do with it. All sound sources are equally affected by room modes and boundary effects. The only reason why most folded horns aren't heard as well on stage as direct radiators is that most folded horns don't have the midrange response of a direct radiator. You hear a direct radiator up close because you're hearing the midrange. You don't hear the basshorn as well up close because there isn't as much midrange. If you have two sources with identical output at two feet they will have identical output at twenty feet or two hundred feet. 'Scientists' who proved this, all before 1940, include Bell Labs, Western Electric, RCA and Klipsch.
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I liked your explanation to me better..."if this were true, headphones wouldn't work." I use it all the time ;)
 
#104
JimmyM said:
I liked your explanation to me better..."if this were true, headphones wouldn't work." I use it all the time ;)
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Slightly different question this time, that being whether folded horns inherently cannot be heard up close, to which the answer is they're no worse than any other speaker with identical response characteristics. But very few folded horns are capable of the same response as direct radiators. The vast majority of folded horns are simply not well suited to standalone use without another box to cover the mids.
 
#106
Interesting thread.

Why are 10's so popular?

Many years ago.......

SUNN - died
Acoustic - died although semi returning now
Peavey - well nobody took them seriously back then

Enter Hartke and SWR, the next gereration. The rest they say "is history".
 
#107
behemecoytl said:
it seems like 10inch speakers are the most popular size for bass speakers right now, while it 12inch speakers are among the most popular for guitar... this seems counterintuitive to me, although I know that bigger is not necessarily better for bass.

what is it about 10inch speakers that makes them good for the low end?
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You DEFINITELY need to check out the search function. We don't need thread # 1,304,399,475,930 about the topic.
 
#108
I have a Peavey 4x12 cab that I love. 4 ohm cabinet that has a great, tight sound. However, it is rather heavy, hence the purchase of the GS112. Plans were for two GS cabs, but with the economy that will wait......

My father recently purchased a Hartke 4x10 that blew me away. It was tight, clear, and plenty loud. I forget what head we were playing through, but it was nice.
 
#111
SGD Lutherie said:
Which scientist proved that? Bass in general is louder father from the amp, partly because of the long waveforms from the lowest fundamentals.
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bs.gif

Show me your measurements.

If this was the case, it would be infinitely loud at an infinitely far distance. The Perpetual Motion machine does not exist.

If distance were required for bass propagation, then headphones would not work at all.
 
#113
I was sort of suprised nobody really came up with the answer to the question. They all managed to repeat the ad hype and because we've always done it that way type answers.

1. Why do we use 10" speakers for bass? Because of the SVT.
2. Why did the SVT use eight ten inch speakers? Because the amplifier put out lots of power and they needed the number of VOICE COILS to handle the power.
3. If they would have stuck eight 15" speakers into a cabinet they probably would have only sold TWO as only I would have wanted to move them.

You needed to bolt on a PAIR of D140 cabs on the big SUNN to even come close, which was my prefered setup actually...

Somebody mentioned comparing the 215's AMPEG's to the 810's. I have multiples of both cabs. The 810's handle the power just a tiny bit better, the 215's a little more bottom end. When I have two 215's mixed with four 810's with a four string I like the combo. I suppose one 215 and two 810's would be the same.

When I was a youngster we "played with" four 15" speaker cabs and had very good luck with a 4' x 4' and a 3' x 3' sealed cab configuration. We also experimented with two 15" folded horn cabs with excellent results. A pair of either of those stacked verically was very nice and rolled on casters.

Generally we had problems with powering the big speakers in 1972. These days we just dial 1-800-BIG-POOP and say send me big PA power.

BOB
 
#115
rbonner said:
...
1. Why do we use 10" speakers for bass? Because of the SVT.
2. Why did the SVT use eight ten inch speakers? Because the amplifier put out lots of power and they needed the number of VOICE COILS to handle the power.
3. If they would have stuck eight 15" speakers into a cabinet they probably would have only sold TWO as only I would have wanted to move them...
Click to expand...

Those are the first original sentiments I have heard in regards to this worn-out old topic that actually make sense! Thank you!!!!
 
#117
I've never heard a single 15 cab I liked, standing alone. I didn't buy a 410 out of habit, or because of SVT anything. I bought my first 410 because it sounded good to me. Saying people buy them out of habit is ridiculous. It's the same as saying we don't know what we like to hear.
 
#120
I think rbonner has a good point. Even the "toughest" 15" speakers from three decades ago would have a hard time coping (heck, even surviving) with ever more powerful bass amps that started to show up after the SVT. They were designed to be with smaller tube amps, where big power handling was not a top priority. So you HAD to have many coils to distribute the heat.

/Alexander
 

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