Why all the Tal smack talk?

[JAUQO III-X]

On the other hand, we have Jeff's current bass player - Rhonda Smith, who has excellent skills and uses it to lay down a very solid and very funky bottom using her slapping technique like a crutch - INCESSANTLY.

Its her sound, and I don't really like that sound dominating the groove - a groove that is, without much mellody, but lots of thrumping, slapping and pulling instead.

In fact, the more I hear Rhonda, the more I miss Tal.

IF this thread were entitled something about the hating on Rhonda, THEN I might understand - but hating on Tal - a woman of less than 25 years who has started a meteoric rise based upon a new fresh style of play should NOT be ridiculed in the LEAST by this group of supposed Bass players.

Ok. You don't care for Rhonda and some people don't care for Tal.


To each their own.


But Jeff seems to like both.

 

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

I think that gender criticism of Tal Wilkenfeld is overblown. There are a many great female players that are totally acknowledged by the overwhelming majority of players. No one says anything bad about Gail Anne Dorsey, MeShell Ndegeocello, Rhonda Smith, etc. The only criticism Carol Kaye ever gets has to do with her possibly claiming some sessions that James Jamerson played on.

+ 1

All the people that Dr Cheese listed as well as others (Jennifer Arroyo comes to mind for me) are all females who are incredibly talented and TB'ers respect as fellow bassists regardless of gender or looks. I'll admit that in any person (male or female), looks always garner suspicion for me because in many cases the music industry will launch you miles ahead based on looks. Whoever is the most marketable usually gets all the breaks.

 

[Mr_Sore_Fingerz]

:scowl:

I'll 2nd that...derogatory comments about age launched at one another is uncalled for, Kenneth

 

[Norwegian Bass]

I'll 2nd that...derogatory comments about age launched at one another is uncalled for, Kenneth

And when somebody says the same damn thing a million times at every opportunity... after a while it gets a little....???

See... double meaning!

If you read other Tal Wilkenfeld-threads here on tb, you'll notice a certain pattern.

That's the context. My comment was a direct response. It was not meant for you or Deluge Of Sound.

 

[crossstick]

I'll 2nd that...derogatory comments about age launched at one another is uncalled for, Kenneth

How about degrading someones playing because they're young, female and beautiful. What's the difference ?

 

[Pacman]

How about degrading someones playing because they're young, female and beautiful. What's the difference ?

Exactly.



I still want to hear BigOle play, since he thinks Tal is awful. But sadly, as near as I can tell, he's still looking for a gig.

 

[BassJunkie730]

Personally, I blame her complete lack of taste and tone on EBS.

Damn Swedes, always ruining the party.





I've not heard this lady play, nor does who she plays with or how she sounds really affects me.

Frankly, Scarlett i don't give a damn

and I find it puzzling why others would.


Then again my bass heroes are John Entwhistle, John Wetton, and john paul jones.

so my bias is clear, her name is NOT john

therefore she sucks.

 

[JimmyM]

i love these types of threads!

 

[jerry]

i love these types of threads!

They never disappoint!

 

[fractiouslowend]

What were you listening to her play? Was it from the 70 to 90% of her work over the last 3 years - Jeff Beck? I'd recommend you listen again, this time compare her work with him, to the bass players that he performed with previously. THAT is the only fair way to judge her abilities. In fact, you'll find that Jeff's live playlist has changed very slowly over the last 20 to 30 years, and Tal's interpretations of those songs in most cases have the most groove, introduce nuances never heard before, and provide new quick melodies underneath tried and true pieces on a regular basis. Her "competition" are no slouches, that's for sure.
Here's another interesting way to assess Tal: Just listen to the Live At Ronnie Scott Exhaust Note ROIO - its easy to find - and listen to the differences of the two recorded versions (from subsequent nights) of 'Cause We've Ended As Lovers - she provides an almost entirely different feel to the song's groove and her solo based on the overall different feel that Vinnie, Jeff and Jason were laying down. Since you've said that you needed to watch some Youtube videos of her, I can safely assume that you weren't really aware of her work before you made this assessment. Its easy to apply a preconceived notion and to find "data" to support it - its harder still to look at the objective data and reach a valid conclusion.

before you assume that i just don't care, i did say i tried to give her a go, i read some interviews with her, i watched a bunch of her videos on youtube over a few weeks, and i just wasn't impressed.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying she's crap or anything, i actually think she's quite good. But she just doesn't do it for me is all i am saying.
I'm sure i have some favourite bassists that you don't like.

 

[JimmyM]

I still want to hear BigOle play, since he thinks Tal is awful. But sadly, as near as I can tell, he's still looking for a gig.

jon, there are two responses to someone who states their negative opinion of an artist or entertainer that are the absolute worst responses you can give. one is "oh, you're just jealous," which has been used by several people already. the other is what you said

the jealousy argument is easily disproven when you consider that most people actually LIKE some artists and don't seem to be the least bit jealous of them. your argument doesn't need to be disproven because it's 100% immaterial. i dislike a lot of musicians who are better than me, but even i got better than they are, it's highly unlikely my opinion would change.

and this is why i love threads like this one...because those two arguments are ALWAYS used, and they're ALWAYS silly.

slightly less silly but no less useless is trying to talk someone into liking someone they don't, a tactic that some have tried and are trying. trust me...it doesn't work. if someone doesn't like an artist you like, i'm afraid your best response is just to accept it and move on with your life.

 

[crossstick]

That's fair enough, i think if people just simply said i don't like her style then all would be good with the world. I'm not a huge Miller fan but i have a ton of respect for what he does as it sounds like you do for Tal.

People that say she's awful or overrated think they are the god of all that's good in bass playing. It's a much bigger blight on them and the people that hire her (beck, herbie, vinnie and chick) than Tal herself.

before you assume that i just don't care, i did say i tried to give her a go, i read some interviews with her, i watched a bunch of her videos on youtube over a few weeks, and i just wasn't impressed.
don't get me wrong, i'm not saying she's crap or anything, i actually think she's quite good. But she just doesn't do it for me is all i am saying.
I'm sure i have some favourite bassists that you don't like.

 

[crossstick]

Yeah but i bet you don't go to the trouble to trash them on a public forum ???

If you go to the trouble to trash a musician online it does show that that musician is getting to you in someway and it does reek of jealousy. It's the love/hate syndrome.

I agree with PacMan on this one.

jon, there are two responses to someone who states their negative opinion of an artist or entertainer that are the absolute worst responses you can give. one is "oh, you're just jealous," which has been used by several people already. the other is what you said

the jealousy argument is easily disproven when you consider that most people actually LIKE some artists and don't seem to be the least bit jealous of them. your argument doesn't need to be disproven because it's 100% immaterial. i dislike a lot of musicians who are better than me, but even i got better than they are, it's highly unlikely my opinion would change.

and this is why i love threads like this one...because those two arguments are ALWAYS used, and they're ALWAYS silly.

slightly less silly but no less useless is trying to talk someone into liking someone they don't, a tactic that some have tried and are trying. trust me...it doesn't work. if someone doesn't like an artist you like, i'm afraid your best response is just to accept it and move on with your life.

 

[JimmyM]

People that say she's awful or overrated think they are the god of all that's good in bass playing. It's a much bigger blight on them and the people that hire her (beck, herbie, vinnie and chick) than Tal herself.

wow, calm down, dude. you take other people's opinions way too seriously. people are entitled to think whatever they want and it doesn't mean they think they are the god of all that's good in bass playing if they don't like someone you like. what it means is it's not connecting with them. so take it easy...everybody is not you and they shouldn't have to think like you, nor should they be silenced for having an opinion that differs from yours.

sheesh! you'd think you were tal's manager!

 

[crossstick]

Why don't you quote everything i said in that post, bit selective there mate.

This was the first paragraph

That's fair enough, i think if people just simply said i don't like her style then all would be good with the world. I'm not a huge Miller fan but i have a ton of respect for what he does as it sounds like you do for Tal.

wow, calm down, dude. you take other people's opinions way too seriously. people are entitled to think whatever they want and it doesn't mean they think they are the god of all that's good in bass playing if they don't like someone you like. what it means is it's not connecting with them. so take it easy...everybody is not you and they shouldn't have to think like you, nor should they be silenced for having an opinion that differs from yours.

sheesh! you'd think you were tal's manager!

 

[JimmyM]

Yeah but i bet you don't go to the trouble to trash them on a public forum ???

If you go to the trouble to trash a musician online it does show that that musician is getting to you in someway and it does reek of jealousy. It's the love/hate syndrome.

I agree with PacMan on this one.

oh, believe me, dude...i am more than happy to trash musicians i don't like online and i do it all the time. and you can think what you want, but to call it jealousy is ridiculous. there are so many musicians i do like that it totally disproves any jealousy argument.

 

[crossstick]

So why trash a musician that you don't like and has no influence on your playing or life, why bother ?

Do you want that musician to read it and feel like crap, what's the goal. I don't get it.

oh, believe me, dude...i am more than happy to trash musicians i don't like online and i do it all the time. and you can think what you want, but to call it jealousy is ridiculous. there are so many musicians i do like that it totally disproves any jealousy argument.

 

[JimmyM]

Why don't you quote everything i said in that post, bit selective there mate.

This was the first paragraph

That's fair enough, i think if people just simply said i don't like her style then all would be good with the world. I'm not a huge Miller fan but i have a ton of respect for what he does as it sounds like you do for Tal.

i pulled it out for three reasons:

1. nobody cares.

2. it wasn't at all important to what -I- had to say.

3. nobody should have to state their opinions in a way that you like just because you think they should.

 

[JimmyM]

So why trash a musician that you don't like and has no influence on your playing or life, why bother ?

Do you want that musician to read it and feel like crap, what's the goal. I don't get it.

my goal is to state my opinion. i have opinions and i like to state them occasionally. if a musician feels like crap after reading something i said, sorry, but that's a risk you take when you put yourself out there.

 

[crossstick]

The paragraph says share your opinion but in a respectful way.

What i'm saying is show some respect. Like i said, i'm not a huge Miller fan, does that mean he's awful, or overrated. Hell no, it means i just don't get it. Who am i to say someones crap. I'm not a bass god.

i pulled it out for three reasons:

1. nobody cares.

2. it wasn't at all important to what -I- had to say.

3. nobody should have to state their opinions in a way that you like just because you think they should.