Why are Alembics so expensive?

[Stealth Fighter]

It's simple - the longer it takes to build an item, the more that item will cost. A business has to pay employees to manufacture that item. The business pays them for every hour they work. More hours = more money = higher cost. Now factor in that Alembics are made in the USA, where salaries are - are you ready for this - 20 times higher than they are in China. That means that Squier, Epiphone, SX, et. al. are paying their workers $2/hr. salary and benefits, while it costs Alembic $40/hr. salary and benefits. Consider now that Alembics are entirely hand made, whereas the Chinese products are spit out using automatic machinery.

Now factor in the overhead. Alembic pays property taxes, workmans comp insurance, building and property insurance. They also have an administrative staff that gets paid around the same rate as the production staff. Now factor in the raw materials and electronics, which are MUCH higher quality than those on any Chinese bass. The electronics and hardware are proprietary, which means they are MUCH MUCH higher cost than what the Chinese are using.

And there you are. THAT'S why Alembics are so expensive. Resale isn't any worse than most high-end builders. In fact, resale isn't any worse than most non-Fender basses. It's just that when you take a 50% hit on a bass that costs $11k, it's more noticeable than when you take a 50% hit on a $1.5k bass.

Even this doesn't explain a $20K guitar. Some people just have more money than they know what to do with, so they buy Alembics.

 

[Hopkins]

I was talking about base models, but if you want to go there . . .

This too can be yours for $10 million.

That looks like a tacky red and gold Batmobile.

 

[GBassNorth]

Are the materials? the woods? the building quality? the fame?
For example Warwick use similar quality woods but they are not so expensive as Alembic.
Also I can't understand why a second hand Alembic has so low resale value.
I have never played an Alembic bass. I'm thinking to get a used Epic 4.

A new Alembic is very very expensive compared to other off the shelf mass produced basses. However, if compared to other unique design hand built completely proprietary basses it may not be that much more. Quality, craftsmanship, construction, components, materials, finish, feel, tone and playability of these basses are right there with the best if not the best in the industry.
A used Alembic is significantly less costly (street price is usually between $1500 and $4000) depending on the model and features. Considering the quality of the bass you are getting these can be a real steal!
I currently own both Alembic and Warwick basses and both are great but the Warwick isn't even in the same league as far as woods, construction, fit, finish or playability are concerned.
I don't own any Epic basses but I've played a couple and thought they sounded and played nice. I do think you take a big step up in Alembic quality and sound if you go with an Essence bass vs the Epic. Its not uncommon to find an Essence for sale that may be only a couple hundred more in cost than an Epic. An Essence for $1500 - $2000 is well worth the money.

 

[svlilioukalani]

These basses are made by hand with great care. The basses are made exactly how the owner specifies. So when you play your bass it should feel exactly how you want it to feel. They go into great detail with neck size, shape, with, length, wood type, fret type. It takes time and money to build a 5 piece multi laminate neck.

The electronics are a completely different bag. They are all hand made and wired by Ron.


Ron don't rush, and his pickups and electronics near total perfection. There is great history with the Alembic crew. I highly recommend going to their website and poking around. There is a lot of rock-n-roll history there.

I am poor. Got my Alembics used. Each plays very differently. Each one is different. They all give me great joy to play. The sound is amazing. They are so accurate they will make you a better player. And show all of your flaws.

On my R&B gig I use a Nash 62 Jazz copy. It's THE sound for that gig. Alembic is the best, but not for everything.

My first Alembic was an epic. You can't go wrong getting one if it's used. Be patient they pop up a few times a year for in the $1000 range. The problem is that they are addictive.

Hang out on there web site. There is a build calculator. Let your dreams go wild.

 

[mark beem]

The market determines prices. They cost that much because that's how much people are willing to pay for them.

 

[Gaolee]

That looks like a tacky red and gold Batmobile.

For ten million, they would probably paint it a different color if you asked nicely. It would probably still go faster than a Chevy pickup. The Chevy pickup probably has more hauling capacity, though, so buying that Mercedes is clearly a misguided exercise in spending money. If you can't haul a sheet of plywood, what good are you, anyway? Sheesh!

How much plywood can an Alembic haul? And if it were a woodchuck, could it chuck wood?

 

[BruceWane]

It's simple - the longer it takes to build an item, the more that item will cost. A business has to pay employees to manufacture that item. The business pays them for every hour they work. More hours = more money = higher cost. Now factor in that Alembics are made in the USA, where salaries are - are you ready for this - 20 times higher than they are in China. That means that Squier, Epiphone, SX, et. al. are paying their workers $2/hr. salary and benefits, while it costs Alembic $40/hr. salary and benefits. Consider now that Alembics are entirely hand made, whereas the Chinese products are spit out using automatic machinery.

Now factor in the overhead. Alembic pays property taxes, workmans comp insurance, building and property insurance. They also have an administrative staff that gets paid around the same rate as the production staff. Now factor in the raw materials and electronics, which are MUCH higher quality than those on any Chinese bass. The electronics and hardware are proprietary, which means they are MUCH MUCH higher cost than what the Chinese are using.

And there you are. THAT'S why Alembics are so expensive. Resale isn't any worse than most high-end builders. In fact, resale isn't any worse than most non-Fender basses. It's just that when you take a 50% hit on a bass that costs $11k, it's more noticeable than when you take a 50% hit on a $1.5k bass.

All these things factor into your business model - whether or not you can bring a product to market profitably. But it has precisely nothing to do with the actual selling price of an item.

Unless you're into being charitable, as a business owner, you generally sell your product for as high a price as you can. You don't really base your selling price on your cost.

Sure, Alembic spends a good amount of money on their production - wages to highly skilled craftsmen, etc., but they sell basses for $$$$$$$ because they can.

If I could make a basses at a cost of 25 cents and sell them for $5K, or $10K, or $20K, et cetera, et cetera....... I would.

 

[Hopkins]

For ten million, they would probably paint it a different color if you asked nicely. It would probably still go faster than a Chevy pickup. The Chevy pickup probably has more hauling capacity, though, so buying that Mercedes is clearly a misguided exercise in spending money. If you can't haul a sheet of plywood, what good are you, anyway? Sheesh!

How much plywood can an Alembic haul? And if it were a woodchuck, could it chuck wood?

Its not the color, its the shape. The gold doesn't help much. There are much faster and better looking cars for much less than 10 million.

Getting on track, a hand made by one person doesn't make it better than a preamp assembled on a line. It just means it takes longer to make.

 

[smcd]

Even this doesn't explain a $20K guitar. Some people just have more money than they know what to do with, so they buy Alembics.

Sure it does. You just don't understand how much things things cost. Most Alembics don't run anywhere near $20k. The basses in that strata are fairly special. But let's do the math anyway:

How much labor is in a $20k bass? Remember that you have to pay someone for every minute he is rummaging through a pile of lumber, inspecting and comparing grain and color, etc. Given what a Series II looks like, is it plausible that it takes a worker 4 weeks of hand labor to build that bass from start to finish? You bet it is. There's $6.5k in labor alone right there. Hardware and electronics - another $1.5k? Now we're up to $8k just to build the bass. Overhead cost (electricity, heat/AC, taxes, administration, sales, marketing, etc.) - about 60%, so that's another $5k. Now we're up to $13k, and that's just to cover costs. Gotta make a profit, so tack on 50% and we're up to $19k. There you go. THAT'S how you get a $20k bass.

 

[smcd]

All these things factor into your business model - whether or not you can bring a product to market profitably. But it has precisely nothing to do with the actual selling price of an item.

Unless you're into being charitable, as a business owner, you generally sell your product for as high a price as you can. You don't really base your selling price on your cost.

Sure, Alembic spends a good amount of money on their production - wages to highly skilled craftsmen, etc., but they sell basses for $$$$$$$ because they can.

If I could make a basses at a cost of 25 cents and sell them for $5K, or $10K, or $20K, et cetera, et cetera....... I would.

Clearly you are not a business owner.

 

[GBassNorth]

These basses are made by hand with great care. The basses are made exactly how the owner specifies. So when you play your bass it should feel exactly how you want it to feel. They go into great detail with neck size, shape, with, length, wood type, fret type. It takes time and money to build a 5 piece multi laminate neck.
.

Not to mention the 9 piece multi lam and ebony slab neck on my lowly old Essence (its their bottom of the line neck thru bass)...

 

[Twocanbassman]

Droool...

Also - consider the cost compared to a quality violin, double bass, cello, etc!

 

[Hopkins]

Sure it does. You just don't understand how much things things cost. Most Alembics don't run anywhere near $20k. The basses in that strata are fairly special. But let's do the math anyway:

How much labor is in a $20k bass? Remember that you have to pay someone for every minute he is rummaging through a pile of lumber, inspecting and comparing grain and color, etc. Given what a Series II looks like, is it plausible that it takes a worker 4 weeks of hand labor to build that bass from start to finish? You bet it is. There's $6.5k in labor alone right there. Hardware and electronics - another $1.5k? Now we're up to $8k just to build the bass. Overhead cost (electricity, heat/AC, taxes, administration, sales, marketing, etc.) - about 60%, so that's another $5k. Now we're up to $13k, and that's just to cover costs. Gotta make a profit, so tack on 50% and we're up to $19k. There you go. THAT'S how you get a $20k bass.

It does not take 672 actual working hours to complete any bass. There is way more down time in a build than actual working time. most of the time is spent waiting for glue to dry in clamps, or waiting for finish to dry. While this is happening, the builders will be working on something else. They are most likely paid an hourly rate to work on multiple instruments. The actual man hours spent in a bass, even something like an Alembic is probably closer to 50 or 60, and no more than 100.

Alembic does not pay 1500 bucks for their hardware and electronics, its probably not even a quarter of that. Their overhead is figured into the cost of every instrument they sell, so that comes off their bottom line, and shouldn't have to great of an effect on the over all cost of the instrument. They are probably selling their instruments at a 75% markup of what it cost them to make them. This is pure speculation, but it is a very educated guess, as I know exactly what goes into building an instrument, and I know how long it takes me to complete a bass, and how much it costs me in materials. I buy materials for one bass at a time at retail price, so Alembic pays way less than I do for materials.

The market determines the price, and they are in the high end of the market, where people can and will spend that much on an instrument. There for Alembic charges that much, it has little to do with the cost to make them. There are smaller builders that make a nicer product,(better looking, lighter, balanced better, sounds better) for much less money than a new Alembic.

 

[smcd]

My old Spolier. I wish I could find a photo of the control cavity.

 

[bucephylus]

Even this doesn't explain a $20K guitar. Some people just have more money than they know what to do with, so they buy Alembics.

Fine line between discussing a topic you don't understand and slagging people.

 

[smcd]

It does not take 672 actual working hours to complete any bass.

What? Where did you get that number??

 

[spade2you]

What? Where did you get that number??

Apparently a $26k bass, assuming $40/hr.

 

[Hopkins]

What? Where did you get that number??

From here,

is it plausible that it takes a worker 4 weeks of hand labor to build that bass from start to finish?

 

[bucephylus]

LOL

Apparently you need to explain to Alembic that they all need to work for $40/hr and pay for all their materials, tooling, and overhead out of their pockets. Best of luck.

 

[john_g]

Similar, but not the same, in tolerances, design, or materials. It's a specious argument. And in any case I think Hyundai manufacturing and Mercedes manufacturing probably have more in common than Fender and Alembic manufacturing. Both makes of cars are built in series on assembly lines, as are Fender basses. As near as I can tell, Alembics are still made to order, which changes the per-unit cost dramatically.

That doesn't explain the whole price structure of Alembics. They get to charge a ridiculous premium for their image and reputation as innovators and craftsmen.

Yeahhhh, I was just joking around...

Sorry, I didn't realize you had already used the same illustration.

Are you trying to muscle in on my territory???