Oyyyyyyyyyyy................
Hopkins - you need to take a few business courses. You don't get the build time by dividing the MSRP by the hourly rate. LOL!
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Why are Alembics so expensive?
- Thread starter supremo
- Start date
Oyyyyyyyyyyy................
Hopkins - you need to take a few business courses. You don't get the build time by dividing the MSRP by the hourly rate. LOL!
Hopkins
Commercial User
Seriously? You said it takes 4 weeks of hand labor to build an Alembic, I corrected you based on my own experience of actually building basses. How did this possibly come to me needing to take business courses?
LOL - good call buce, I own two Alembics. Guess I must have twice as much money as I know what to do with. I'll consider myself officially slagged by Stealth Fighter.
BTW I also own a nice Squier Affinity Jazz 5 that I paid $220 for new, so I guess using Stealths logic I can assume anyone who bought a new MIA Fender Jazz 5 or even a MIM at normal market prices must have more money than brains.
672 hours is
some poor sap
working 24/7 for 4 weeks straight. No potty breaks either.
I'm in the camp that believes Alembics are worth it to those who can afford it. I just saw some of the stuff from the link page 1 and the detail is stunning.
some poor sap
working 24/7 for 4 weeks straight. No potty breaks either.
I'm in the camp that believes Alembics are worth it to those who can afford it. I just saw some of the stuff from the link page 1 and the detail is stunning.
IF one has to ask why......they'll probably never get it
Or one could read the myriad of threads on why does [xyz] bass cost so much, or is [xyz] bass worth it, or my $125 bass that I got a a yard sale sounds better than your sadowsky.
There is nothing wrong with rehashing a topic, it gives new people a chance to chime in. It would however, be nice if the people bringing up the well worn topic would read what has been written and try to bring something new to the discussion.
Now that there is funny! In hops defense maybe he was thinking of an over seas sweat shop with slave labor. That would explain the 24 hour work shift.
Hopkins said:
It does not take 672 actual working hours to complete any bass. There is way more down time in a build than actual working time. most of the time is spent waiting for glue to dry in clamps, or waiting for finish to dry. While this is happening, the builders will be working on something else. They are most likely paid an hourly rate to work on multiple instruments. The actual man hours spent in a bass, even something like an Alembic is probably closer to 50 or 60, and no more than 100.
Alembic does not pay 1500 bucks for their hardware and electronics, its probably not even a quarter of that. Their overhead is figured into the cost of every instrument they sell, so that comes off their bottom line, and shouldn't have to great of an effect on the over all cost of the instrument. They are probably selling their instruments at a 75% markup of what it cost them to make them. This is pure speculation, but it is a very educated guess, as I know exactly what goes into building an instrument, and I know how long it takes me to complete a bass, and how much it costs me in materials. I buy materials for one bass at a time at retail price, so Alembic pays way less than I do for materials.
The market determines the price, and they are in the high end of the market, where people can and will spend that much on an instrument. There for Alembic charges that much, it has little to do with the cost to make them. There are smaller builders that make a nicer product,(better looking, lighter, balanced better, sounds better) for much less money than a new Alembic.
True dat. Which costs more, a Corvette Stingray or a Porsche 911? Which one performs better? The Corvette. Ditto the Nissan GTR. Which one costs more? The Porsche. Why? Because it has a badge on it that says 'Porsche', and Porsche knows there are lots of people who will pay a lot more for a car that says 'Porsche' on it, better performance or no. My guess is Alembics cost more because Alembic simply chooses to manufacture in a way that has a high overhead, and because they have a higher markup. They know they can mark up the way they do because of the same mentality that drives people to buy Porsches instead of Corvettes.
I know I'll get attacked for this, but personally, I'm pretty skeptical that Alembics are really that much better than other instruments. If Alembics were so indisputably superior, why don't all the people for whom money is no object play them? The Adam Claytons, the Darryl Jones's, the Bob Glaubs, the Mike Dirnts, the Robert Trujillos, none of them play Alembics. Even Jack Casady, supposely the owner of the first Alembic ever made, does not play an Alembic. Casady plays a grubby consumer brand Epiphone. Buy what you want, play what you want, but don't instruct people about what's 'better.'
It does not take 672 actual working hours to complete any bass. There is way more down time in a build than actual working time. most of the time is spent waiting for glue to dry in clamps, or waiting for finish to dry. While this is happening, the builders will be working on something else. They are most likely paid an hourly rate to work on multiple instruments. The actual man hours spent in a bass, even something like an Alembic is probably closer to 50 or 60, and no more than 100.
Alembic does not pay 1500 bucks for their hardware and electronics, its probably not even a quarter of that. Their overhead is figured into the cost of every instrument they sell, so that comes off their bottom line, and shouldn't have to great of an effect on the over all cost of the instrument. They are probably selling their instruments at a 75% markup of what it cost them to make them. This is pure speculation, but it is a very educated guess, as I know exactly what goes into building an instrument, and I know how long it takes me to complete a bass, and how much it costs me in materials. I buy materials for one bass at a time at retail price, so Alembic pays way less than I do for materials.
The market determines the price, and they are in the high end of the market, where people can and will spend that much on an instrument. There for Alembic charges that much, it has little to do with the cost to make them. There are smaller builders that make a nicer product,(better looking, lighter, balanced better, sounds better) for much less money than a new Alembic.
True dat. Which costs more, a Corvette Stingray or a Porsche 911? Which one performs better? The Corvette. Ditto the Nissan GTR. Which one costs more? The Porsche. Why? Because it has a badge on it that says 'Porsche', and Porsche knows there are lots of people who will pay a lot more for a car that says 'Porsche' on it, better performance or no. My guess is Alembics cost more because Alembic simply chooses to manufacture in a way that has a high overhead, and because they have a higher markup. They know they can mark up the way they do because of the same mentality that drives people to buy Porsches instead of Corvettes.
I know I'll get attacked for this, but personally, I'm pretty skeptical that Alembics are really that much better than other instruments. If Alembics were so indisputably superior, why don't all the people for whom money is no object play them? The Adam Claytons, the Darryl Jones's, the Bob Glaubs, the Mike Dirnts, the Robert Trujillos, none of them play Alembics. Even Jack Casady, supposely the owner of the first Alembic ever made, does not play an Alembic. Casady plays a grubby consumer brand Epiphone. Buy what you want, play what you want, but don't instruct people about what's 'better.'
Someone here said 672 and four weeks, so that's how THEY figured it. I just phrased it easier to ridicule.
Someone here said 672 and four weeks, so that's how THEY figured it. I just phrased it easier to ridicule.
Yes. I appreciate your doing that. I was a bit at sea trying to figure out his math.
Hopkins
Commercial User
Yeah that's how I came up with that number, because what you said makes no sense otherwise. It would take much longer than a month to receive a custom built Alembic. So where did you get this 4 week number?
And do you really think I am stupid enough to think you were talking about a 24/7 work schedule? When you say it takes 4 weeks of hand labor, I assume you means 4 weeks of combined time, as it obviously takes much longer than 4 weeks to receive an Alembic after placing an order.
Urk, again with "the price! OMG!!" 
Why is anything expensive? Cars, guitars, vip escorts...whatever...
It's might be a combination of factors maybe?
Concept, design, materials, process, work, scale, marketing, brand, market, business model, margin, consumer base etc. everything matters in whatever amount. Alembics are for me personally more or less useless. They don't sound the way I want, feel the way I like, and they're too heavy for my taste. BUT, that does not mean that they sound nice in someone else's hands and/or are the absolute gold standard for another player. And as far as price go, I can easily see why these instruments have to be quite expensive.
They are luxurious, finely crafted things of beauty for sure.
But they're simply not how I feel what a bass guitar is "all about".
I like Fenders and Fender inspired, like Sadowsky, type instruments.
Luckily there's room for lots of different builders.
Why is anything expensive? Cars, guitars, vip escorts...whatever...
It's might be a combination of factors maybe?
Concept, design, materials, process, work, scale, marketing, brand, market, business model, margin, consumer base etc. everything matters in whatever amount. Alembics are for me personally more or less useless. They don't sound the way I want, feel the way I like, and they're too heavy for my taste. BUT, that does not mean that they sound nice in someone else's hands and/or are the absolute gold standard for another player. And as far as price go, I can easily see why these instruments have to be quite expensive.
They are luxurious, finely crafted things of beauty for sure.
But they're simply not how I feel what a bass guitar is "all about".
I like Fenders and Fender inspired, like Sadowsky, type instruments.
Luckily there's room for lots of different builders.
The only way to understand Alembic as a company, as a collection of people making instruments, is to spend a few months at the Alembic club. The "factory to customer" threads are fascinating. They are a public exchange about the progress, changes, and process of an individual build. They bring the concept of customer satisfaction and quality control to a whole nuther level.
Having spent a number of years at the Alembic club, I have read countless threads, on a wide range of experiences and had plenty of first hand interactions that leave me with an unshakable faith. The Wickersham's are good people, having spent decades striving and refining, with the goal of realizing their vision. The prices are not based on gouging suckers, or because "they can" The prices are based on what it takes to support the company, the vehicle of their passion. I have never experienced anything in the commercial world like Alembic. If I am ever fortunate enough to order a custom, I plan on throwing in an extra 15% as a tip!
Having spent a number of years at the Alembic club, I have read countless threads, on a wide range of experiences and had plenty of first hand interactions that leave me with an unshakable faith. The Wickersham's are good people, having spent decades striving and refining, with the goal of realizing their vision. The prices are not based on gouging suckers, or because "they can" The prices are based on what it takes to support the company, the vehicle of their passion. I have never experienced anything in the commercial world like Alembic. If I am ever fortunate enough to order a custom, I plan on throwing in an extra 15% as a tip!
BTW - can someone point me to this $20,000 Alembic bass everyone keeps referencing. The most expensive one I can find is at Bass Central and its a very limited production (1 of 25 built) 8 string bass with special electronics and LEDs. The sale price is $12,500. That's a far cry from $20,000. A lot of the Alembics at BC are under $8,000 with at least one at about $2,500.
That's another cool feature at the Alembic site, the "quote generator". It gives you the equivalent of MSRP, not what you actually end up paying. For some it's a game, let's see how high we can make it go.
Is that true? I was under the impression that the Series I electronics are essentially unchanged (functionally at least...perhaps you meant component selection?) since the mid-1970s.
THIS is the correct answer.
Prices on anything is based on supply and demand. Nothing more and nothing less. If Alembics weren't selling at the prices they are currently offering, they would find a way to cost cut to lower the prices, create a new inexpensive line made overseas or they would go out of business.
