I’d put that project on the back burner and work on my own material if my parts were coming back erased. My days of fighting over band dynamics are long past, but my ability to walk away from a bad situation is very real.
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Why are band dynamics so delicate?
- Thread starter stoggin
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- band dynamics
So, musicians are just the same as everyone else, who knew? OK, sorry for the sarcasm, but I think we sometimes see things through rose colored glasses We think the music will unite us, but in the end we are all just people and some people have bigger ego's, more baggage, or greater degrees of psychopathy than others.
You need to ask this guitarist/singer what his goals are and what part he sees you playing in any collaborative future. If the answers aren't anything you want to be part of, as I suspect will be the case, we'll you know what the outcome should be.
It's always a PITA to loose a partnership we found rewarding, but sometimes small differences grow over time and people change.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll find some other creative partners out there. (Or perhaps on here?)
You need to ask this guitarist/singer what his goals are and what part he sees you playing in any collaborative future. If the answers aren't anything you want to be part of, as I suspect will be the case, we'll you know what the outcome should be.
It's always a PITA to loose a partnership we found rewarding, but sometimes small differences grow over time and people change.
Good luck, I'm sure you'll find some other creative partners out there. (Or perhaps on here?)
Well, there’s 2 things at play here. One is related to band dynamics, which while never perfectly equal or democratic, can get close to a fully participating situation for all members. The other is related to song writing, which unless clearly spelled out at the start, will almost always be unequal on an individual song level. For example, most Beatles songs were “written” by John and Paul because they decided to share credit in that way. However, when you read more about the origins of individual songs, there were many times when one of them wrote nearly all of a song and the other just helped them finish a small part of it.
Personally, I’m past the point of being in a band where I’m just the bass player who fulfills an assigned role. I want to have my share of input as well as the freedom to make the bass parts my own. However, I am not a skilled or prolific songwriter, so I am fine with someone asking me to write a bass part for an existing song. In fact, I kind of like it as it usually exposes me to musical styles and ideas that I wouldn’t otherwise come across. Lastly. I would agree that talking through things with the other person instead of volleying tracks back and forth should be the first step.
Personally, I’m past the point of being in a band where I’m just the bass player who fulfills an assigned role. I want to have my share of input as well as the freedom to make the bass parts my own. However, I am not a skilled or prolific songwriter, so I am fine with someone asking me to write a bass part for an existing song. In fact, I kind of like it as it usually exposes me to musical styles and ideas that I wouldn’t otherwise come across. Lastly. I would agree that talking through things with the other person instead of volleying tracks back and forth should be the first step.
People are quick to assume malice, but it's actually incredibly normal for a songwriter to play all the instruments on their demo recordings. This removes any ambiguity of who wrote the song and owns the rights, reducing the risk of future legal hassles. It sounds like you two are already disagreeing about who wrote the song, and it's not even a hit yet, so I can see where the guitarist is coming from, wanting to protect himself legally. By removing your bass line from the demo, it eliminates the argument that your bass line is an "essential element" of the song's composition.
There's info missing here. Why would he send you the song with your bass track removed? Were you meant to track a new one? What could anyone imagine you would do with that? Your head is not up your ass. This is incomprehensible.
Send the track back to him with just your bass line.
Looks like you missed the memo about the band coup. The guitarist/singer thinks he runs the show now, and since he writes the songs and won’t accept collaboration or input (and nobody’s called him on it), he kinda does.Hey all. Want to get your thoughts. Not sure if it’s the right place in the forums but here goes. So for a few years I’ve been writing and recording songs at home with a guitarist, me supplying the bass lines....
cue last year: finally get a drummer. Guitarist is singing which is great. Then over time rather than collaborating, which is the main reason I play, the songs are coming in basically structured, chords etc. Any ideas generally get ignored or if changes are made the song is casually dropped. Last thing that happened was that we continued to write via digital channels. All good until a song came back and my bass was erasedis it wrong for me to feel slighted? The guitarist is a really good friend but he’s never been in a band before and I guess doesn’t get how important band dynamics can be. Or do I just have my head up my ass?
Feel free to retaliate by not telling him that you quit.
Everybody has a direction they want their sound to go, but no 2 of you see it exactly the same. At first it's exciting because you have a sort of push and pull of the styles and it makes the music interesting, but eventually you want the songs to go more your way and so does everyone else. This is where the fighting begins.
And this summarizes my experience in bands writing originals.
And this summarizes my experience in bands writing originals.
c'mon, folks:
- speaking directly/honestly doesn't always get you what you want, but
- never speaking directly/honestly = never gets you what you want!
there are no tricks that can replace candor...and thinking so: makes you want to be manipulative, withholding, passive/aggressive, a whiner, yada yada...it's not even about the 'other' --- it's about who/what you are!
be all that you can be = communicate!
- speaking directly/honestly doesn't always get you what you want, but
- never speaking directly/honestly = never gets you what you want!
there are no tricks that can replace candor...and thinking so: makes you want to be manipulative, withholding, passive/aggressive, a whiner, yada yada...it's not even about the 'other' --- it's about who/what you are!
be all that you can be = communicate!
It's like a marriage but with 3 or 6 people. One of the most difficult kind of association really, as it deals with each member's deepest feelings and concerns.
It's easier with a basic cover band but once creation starts, a balance is very difficult to get to.
It's easier with a basic cover band but once creation starts, a balance is very difficult to get to.
This is distilled, essential wisdom. I don't put it into practice it enough. Thank you for the reminder JRA!
It's not just band dynamics. It occurs across all group settings and regresses a little or a lot when members join or leave the group.
Group dynamics - Wikipedia
Group dynamics - Wikipedia
This is all great input. It kind of makes me sad as we did start with common goals. But I also get It as the singer needs to be comfortable with the songs. I think there are opportunities being missed. And our different styles made something more interesting. We have ‘ a sound ‘ but that’s good and bad... we’re either stunning or locked into something if you see what I mean
Maybe there were no ground rules set up front on who contributes and who doesn’t? Humans will be humans, & without any pre-agreements, things seem to go the way of individual thoughts. It may not be anything other than no forethought on what your friend is doing. Some people are oblivious to how their actions affect others, but it’s not malice, just inattention to others. You need to have a discussion, ask some questions. You might not like the answers you get, but you already don’t like how things are going, so it’s time to figure it out.Hey all. Want to get your thoughts. Not sure if it’s the right place in the forums but here goes. So for a few years I’ve been writing and recording songs at home with a guitarist, me supplying the bass lines....
cue last year: finally get a drummer. Guitarist is singing which is great. Then over time rather than collaborating, which is the main reason I play, the songs are coming in basically structured, chords etc. Any ideas generally get ignored or if changes are made the song is casually dropped. Last thing that happened was that we continued to write via digital channels. All good until a song came back and my bass was erased
These things happen because in general people come on forums and complain to the people that can't change anything and don't sit down and talk with the people that they are having a problem with.
Marriage is hard enough with just one person.
The trio I’m in now is the best I’ve ever been in. No BL, everything is discussed and agreed on or vetoed by one. We respect each other and communicate. We all play acoustic guitar and bass and sing, so we arrange according to each strengths. I’m the only one who plays mandolin, so I always have that covered. Oh, and we are all retired, so we’re way past the childish crap. We all checked our egos a long time ago. It certainly hasn’t been this way in previous bands.
