Because the vast, vast majority of musicians lead with their emotions. It's the foundation for their talent and artistry. However, it's also the foundation for drama when you get two or more of them in a room together... like throwing fuel on a fire. Musicians gonna musician.
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Why are band dynamics so delicate?
- Thread starter stoggin
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He's allowed to change and grow in confidence. First of all ask him what it is that he's now wanting, and give him time to ask himself the question properly, and once you've an answer, ask yourself if you want to be part of it.
(And if you find that you want to be the bassist in charge of everything, Steve Harris says, go for it!)
(And if you find that you want to be the bassist in charge of everything, Steve Harris says, go for it!)
Talk to the other people in the project. Decide on what your role is. Fill that role. If they change it so that you can no longer fill that role, decide if that is something you are kosher with. If it is stay. If it isn't, leave. Trying to manage band dynamics is pointless. Do your job and let others do theirs. If that breaks down, adjust if ti is worth it or bail on the project as it isn't what you signed on to.
Honestly, I frequently like being a sideman. Let someone else handle the other work and let me just do my job.
Honestly, I frequently like being a sideman. Let someone else handle the other work and let me just do my job.
Did you ask why they were erased? The answer is probably better directed to them than a forum.
I am, as a musician, the same as I am a person. So are bandmates. I do consider their personal lives, habits, quirks, etc. when determining if a project is a good fit.
Hey all. Want to get your thoughts. Not sure if it’s the right place in the forums but here goes. So for a few years I’ve been writing and recording songs at home with a guitarist, me supplying the bass lines....
cue last year: finally get a drummer. Guitarist is singing which is great. Then over time rather than collaborating, which is the main reason I play, the songs are coming in basically structured, chords etc. Any ideas generally get ignored or if changes are made the song is casually dropped. Last thing that happened was that we continued to write via digital channels. All good until a song came back and my bass was erasedis it wrong for me to feel slighted? The guitarist is a really good friend but he’s never been in a band before and I guess doesn’t get how important band dynamics can be. Or do I just have my head up my ass?
i certainly understand why you are questioning your situation in the developmental process. I would never comment as to where you might place your casaba as you are entitled to your feelings.
Most of the time when I record as a bassist, my part is pretty well defined. However, in production, all sorts of stuff happens. For instances: notes changed, notes cut, timing altered, parts eliminated, reordered, cut and pasted segments, or as in your case, your part for the whole song ends up in the crapper.
90% of the time changes made in the overall production after a fair unemotional review, were the right moves. The other 10% or so, I just chalk up to artistic differences which is going to happen as long as there is going to be 2 or more artists working on a projects.
As for the collaborative writing process, that is a tough one. Music of today for the most part doesn’t need, and or isn’t written for complicated bass parts. Bass parts resemble the bass viol parts in symphonic music a lot more that the directional style of electric bass of the 50-60-70-80s.
I will say this, if you aren’t fulfilled with your fit with this group, you should feel free to discuss your feeling of not being valued as an artist contributor. See what the reaction is. If there is no resolution. There are other bands.
Sounds like you both need to open up to each other a bit.
Are you sharing the writing of the songs - lyrics, melody & chords? Or just the bass lines? It could be the songwriter has something in mind and you're way off base, and he doesn't want to hurt YOUR feelings. Could be he's lost interest in the song and doesn't want to continue working on it (happens).
If you're going to partner up with these guys it's best just to communicate openly and honestly. Shouldn't hurt to just ask why he decided to do what he did, right?
Here's another thing, if you're only writing the bass lines, then you're not a songwriter, and wouldn't be able to claim any ownership of the song (unfair as that is). That is, unless you agree beforehand to split the songwriting credit for the collaboration. Just bringing this up because I got burned when I was younger and didn't know any better.
Are you sharing the writing of the songs - lyrics, melody & chords? Or just the bass lines? It could be the songwriter has something in mind and you're way off base, and he doesn't want to hurt YOUR feelings. Could be he's lost interest in the song and doesn't want to continue working on it (happens).
If you're going to partner up with these guys it's best just to communicate openly and honestly. Shouldn't hurt to just ask why he decided to do what he did, right?
Here's another thing, if you're only writing the bass lines, then you're not a songwriter, and wouldn't be able to claim any ownership of the song (unfair as that is). That is, unless you agree beforehand to split the songwriting credit for the collaboration. Just bringing this up because I got burned when I was younger and didn't know any better.
It sounds to me like the collaboration up to that point might have inspired him to lift his game. Rather than stick with the current arrangement, he's decided to write complete songs and has pretty firm ideas about how they should sound. I don't see a problem with this, in fact it's what I'd expect from someone who's growing as a musician. It might be that he's no longer content with treading water. Rather, he's decided to dive in head first. My advice is to match him. Don't just sit back, reciprocate in kind. Write your own material and bring it to the table. If he shows enthusiasm for your material as well as his own, you can rest assured he's still intent on a collaborative approach - a good thing. If he's lukewarm, you can probably assume he's no longer interested in your input/collaboration. It's at that point I think you're probably done. If I was in that situation { and I have been }, I'd be looking elsewhere for musical inspiration.
It would pay to first ascertain the reasons 'why' it was erased before jumping to any conclusions. He simply might not have liked the bass part at that particular point in the evolution of the track. There could be myriad reasons for this. Did it fit the tune? Was it too busy? Was he just re-doing the track from scratch and thus felt compelled to remove it to provide you with room for adding a more definitive take? Maybe. Possibly. Probably. Ask him. Whatever the reason, take it as an opportunity to reflect on your own playing. { I can't tell you how many times I've re-done bass parts on demos because I felt they weren't quite *there* - regardless of what other players in the group thought at the time }.All good until a song came back and my bass was erased
At the end of the day, don't worry or beat yourself up over it. It's music, it's all good. If you're still unhappy with the direction in which things are moving, you have the freedom to move on. I wish you the best.
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I used to think like that, but I've changed...
On a full original project, sometimes I don't mind being a hired gun to support their work. Other times, if it's a full band project, I agree with you.
Covers or theater / church / commerical pit work? I have no problem anymore showing up, playing the tunes, and leaving.
Jamming and spiting ideas at each other is easy part.
Completing and presenting a collaborative project is hard.
Band dynamics don't have to be delicate.
Once the goal ( in any ones mind ) is to go beyond that, the group has to address more practical concerns about how to collaborate in pursuit of a goal. It involves much more more than musicianship: conscious effort, awareness, alignment, accountability and individual ownership of the goals, the plan, and the roles of each person. Certainly more than simple creative jamming and recording parts does.
Completing and presenting a collaborative project is hard.
Band dynamics don't have to be delicate.
Once the goal ( in any ones mind ) is to go beyond that, the group has to address more practical concerns about how to collaborate in pursuit of a goal. It involves much more more than musicianship: conscious effort, awareness, alignment, accountability and individual ownership of the goals, the plan, and the roles of each person. Certainly more than simple creative jamming and recording parts does.
In my experience most bands aren't a fully collaborative melding of the minds and everyone sitting in a circle getting excited about their parts. Every band; whether it's explicit or not has a leader and a main creative force. Usually songs come 90% or more finished by the writer, there's just a few things that need done from the band.
If you get along personally and musically with the guitarist, you either need to realise what the role is like in the band, or work out some sort of "On the songs you write, I'll play what you ask. On the songs I write, You play what I ask" nad it becomes parallell collaboration.
If neither option sounds good, you should probably look at finding someone who you get along with beter,
If you get along personally and musically with the guitarist, you either need to realise what the role is like in the band, or work out some sort of "On the songs you write, I'll play what you ask. On the songs I write, You play what I ask" nad it becomes parallell collaboration.
If neither option sounds good, you should probably look at finding someone who you get along with beter,
JeezyMcNuggles
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- Feb 23, 2018
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Was the bass track not good (enough)? Do you have a sample of the song in reference?Yeah maybe I have my head up my ass
So he wrote these few songs. Write the next one. My guitarist kinda has the same deal. He's written 7 songs. I wrote the bass parts. Keys wrote his parts. Drummer drums. But, chords and structure for those songs are his deals. They're his songs. I have 10 or so songs. I'm fully open to arranging and changing anything. But, that's me. Well more often than not, the bass player is the coolest person in the band. Anyone can play bass, not everyone can be a bassist.
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