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why are Foderas so expensive?

one thing i've found,being in retail my whole life..is that when a product is known as "the best"..and it sells like crazy..
(Borsalino Hats, Armani Suits,Rolex,Mercedes..etc..)

it's usually worth every penny.
Much my own experience. There are some "hype" items that come along. But these soon are passed over and the cream stays at the top.

With finer and finer craftsmanship, each level of "finer" requires that much more work. When it is all done by just one fellow, or one fellow and an assistant and all by hand, the time investment is huge. Some makers like Ken Smith have more people involved, but the process is still the same and he still sets up each instrument and picks the wood. I think Fodera has just one assistant. The same is true of Carl Thompson and Jens Ritter. That means a very small number of instruments can be built by these makers. And it isn't like these folks are going to be the next Bill Gates, they are just making a decent living doing what they do. It's comparatively modest what a custom maker makes. And there's the whole self-employment thing to deal with. The successful makers are extremely dedicated to the craft.

And the products are better sounding too. When we think of luthierie, we think of electric bass instruments as being something different from violins or acoustic instruments and they are not. And this kinship with acoustic instruments is what separates the very best hand mades from other hand crafted electric instruments. It has to do with the tuning and proportioning of the parts of the instrument. Nothing to do with "carpentry", "joinery" or "finishing". That intangible carved in tuning is what makes a finer instrument finer. When you can no longer see the difference but you can feel it and hear it, that is the territory of the truly best individual makers. True the difference is small. The number of people who can hear it may be so small that the difference is even suspect. But to someone who looks at a bass on the wall asking (maker previously completely unknown to customer) how about that one there? And the proprietor replies, "Well, now, that's an eight thousand dollar bass." The customer just played some basses from $2500 to $5000. He wants to know the difference. Sure the 8K looks cool, but is it that much better than the next one? So the customer tries it out and can't believe his ears. He loves it, cut's a deal with the proprietor and it is gone. That's what happens with these top level instruments. Someone who hears that difference doesn't care who the name is on it. Nor do they particularly care what it costs if they have the cash. If a person can hear that quality of sound and sees an example, it's not going to matter who tells them whatever about whomever anymore. That maker is going to be immediately in higher demand than the number of instruments he can make. An equilibrium point is reached. The maker streamlines the operation to the extent that he can without compromising quality. But truly that just can't be done past a point, or these makers wouldn't be who they are. I think in most cases the reputations of the fine makers are earned and the prices justified by the extremely fine attention to every detail, including the acoustic characteristics of the finished instrument.
 
Like so many luxury items, they are there for people to spend their money on. Are there basses that are made as well and sound as good? Arguably, yes. Are there cars that are as fast and drive as well as a farrari? Again, probably. However, if you buy them, you wont be able to say that you own a farrari or a fodera.

I have a fossil watch that tells time as well as a Rolex (I'm sure the rolex is more accurate, but you get the point). The difference in the thousands of $$ in the two watches is that one gives you the privelage of saying that you own a rolex.

As a watch collector I can tell you your Fossil watch (quartz) will likely tell BETTER time than the Rolex (automatic/mechanical); however, there is no artistry to a quartz watch compared to a highly precise mechanical watch (like a Rolex, Omega, etc).

In some ways the same is for the Fodera, there is more artistry to that bass than a Fender (CS excluded) which justifies a higher cost (actual amount based on supply and demand).

Later
Rob
 
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really....


Thats shockingly inaccurate. If you knew any better, you would know there is no "Best" bass.

He didn't say they were the best bass. He said they have the "reputation" for being the best bass, which holds a lot of truth.
 
I played guitar for 16 years before turning over to bass.

I contacted Fodera 5x on building a custom guitar, and each an every time Vinnie never followed up with what he said he was going to do.. And all I wanted was a simple quote..

That will forever turn me off on Fodera. Only way I would buy one is if I seen it at some stupid price cause someone didnt know what they had.

Customer Service = Booo in my experiences with them
 
I don't have $200 sunglasses, but that doesn't mean I don't want them.
Well, I do. So what. I care about my eyes and depended on them for years for my livlihood and income and the amount of time I spent out of doors in bright light totally justified good sunglasses. So I put high quality glass in front of my eyes and it does make a difference. I don't drive for a living so I have a cheap used car. I don't own a TV. It's all priorities and we all have different ones. If you really want something, you can make room for it. All of us probably have a luxury something or other comparatively. I don't see why a bass that costs half as much as a POS car is such a big deal when the bass will get better and more valuable with age and and the car will soon be junk no matter how much you pay (unless you do happen to get a collectible Bentley, Aston Martin, etc.) But you the see the truth here. From a certain financial standpoint one might successfully argue that one can't afford a cheap bass because it's a bad investment. Which is true at a certain price point and quality level.

If you don't want to wait 3 years for a Fodera, for Pete's sake, go buy a used or second hand Fodera. What? Can't find one? Well, that should tell the tale all by itself. If the price is adjusted so the wait is shorter, what will happen to the value of a used Fodera? Will it be any less of a Fodera than a new one at double the price? The instruments are worth what the people will pay.

BTW, I don't own a Fodera. I agree with Rakie and I think he has an excellent sense of these instruments in various price ranges. I had the choice of several "boutique" instruments when I bought my Ritter. I'd never heard of Ritter before the day I bought one. I knew of no one who played one. I did know of Victor Wooten and I had heard of Fodera. Endorsements mean 0 to me. All the good players out there can sound good on anything from a Squier right on up. The only important thing is when an instrument really speaks to the voice you want to hear.
 
If I was paying £4k for an instrument I'd want the guy to be jolly well getting on with it, not answering the phone every 10 minutes.

I like talking to them before I crack the whip on them to get my bass finished. :eek:

Hey Z, have you heard of a band called the Beaver Band? They play "The Village Hall" and "The Red Lion" in Bucks. The guitarist Clint Nurse is my cousin. My other cousin Tony plays in a band called Stretchneck. If you run into them, tell them they owe you a pint.
 
He didn't say they were the best bass. He said they have the "reputation" for being the best bass, which holds a lot of truth.

mmm, i wouldn't agree with that either... by popular demand Fender has a reputation of being the best. Look at all the fender players.

what was it ? like 40% of players, or more use Fender MIM jazz basses.
 
Best isn't the same as most popular or favorite. 40% of the people out there drive Toyota Camrys. Ask a pro driver what maker has the reputation of making the best cars and he won't say Toyota.
 
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mmm, i wouldn't agree with that either... by popular demand Fender has a reputation of being the best. Look at all the fender players.

what was it ? like 40% of players, or more use Fender MIM jazz basses.

Uhhhhh....no. that is like saying Honda has a reputation for being the best cause they sell the most cars? They may be extremeley reliable and get the job done with flying colors, but who in the world says that Fender is the nices bass you can buy? And even that, you are saying MIM is the best bass by that reasoning? :eyebrow:

While I don't know if Fodera has a reputation as being THE best, they are in a elite category with few others, Alembic being one of them. It's as much art as anything else.

I have NO idea why people pay soooo much for Mercedes, but if you want to toss in the Ferrari analogy, what is it about Mercedes and Bentley that so many rich people love? Then again, I would own a Carrera in a heartbeat if I wasn't such a sucker for bas gear.
 
As a watch collector I can tell you your Fossil watch (quartz) will likely tell BETTER time than the Rolex (automatic/mechanical); however, there is no artistry to a quartz watch compared to a highly precise mechanical watch (like a Rolex, Omega, etc).

In some ways the same is for the Fodera, there is more artistry to that bass than a Fender (CS excluded) which justifies a higher cost (actual amount based on supply and demand).

Later
Rob

As another watch collector, I felt that I should add this. Rolex watches are not that sought after by those into watch collecting. For one there are a lot of them and secondly, they just are not that good. The only thing that Rolex has going for them is the name, give me a Jeager any day. Heck, I would take most Japanese and some Chinese watches over a Rolex. Rich people wear rolex, not collectors.

lowsound
 
Uhhhhh....no. that is like saying Honda has a reputation for being the best cause they sell the most cars? They may be extremeley reliable and get the job done with flying colors, but who in the world says that Fender is the nices bass you can buy? And even that, you are saying MIM is the best bass by that reasoning? :eyebrow:

While I don't know if Fodera has a reputation as being THE best, they are in a elite category with few others, Alembic being one of them. It's as much art as anything else.

I have NO idea why people pay soooo much for Mercedes, but if you want to toss in the Ferrari analogy, what is it about Mercedes and Bentley that so many rich people love? Then again, I would own a Carrera in a heartbeat if I wasn't such a sucker for bas gear.

it may get the job done or be good enough for most of us here, but outside of TB, most i've talked to consider it the best of the best, but of course thats people in my area, and their personal feelings = Fender > All else, specifically vintage.

Maybe I should have specified, but I assumed you would understand what I meant.


You should see the looks most people around here give you when you say you DON'T play a fender. Hell, I went to my buddies bands show last night, helped them carry some crap, every single band there used a Fender bass, except my buddy used a cheapie 6 from Sam Ash. And, most of them had good rigs, Mesa / Ashdown / SWR / GK stuff... all okay stuff, its just the mindset here where everybody wants to be famous, lol.
 
it may get the job done or be good enough for most of us here, but outside of TB, most i've talked to consider it the best of the best, but of course thats people in my area, and their personal feelings = Fender > All else, specifically vintage.

Maybe I should have specified, but I assumed you would understand what I meant.


You should see the looks most people around here give you when you say you DON'T play a fender. Hell, I went to my buddies bands show last night, helped them carry some crap, every single band there used a Fender bass, except my buddy used a cheapie 6 from Sam Ash. And, most of them had good rigs, Mesa / Ashdown / SWR / GK stuff... all okay stuff, its just the mindset here where everybody wants to be famous, lol.


Interesting

I saw a guy show up to a bluegrass gig, mainly a classical player and had a very nice fully carved DB. Every redneck out there thought is was a POS cause it wasn't an old Kay. Me and him laughed about that. It's a damn shame when people judge solely with their eyes, but then again, that really is what this topic is hinting on.
 
I have mixed feelings about Foderas. I certainly don't question the artistry and skills of Vinny and Joey. I've never heard any bad stories about them either.
Some Foderas I've seen have been gorgeous, while others have been so ugly and gauche.
As far as tone, I've heard some players play Foderas that sounded good to me. Others sounded bleh.
Personally, I've only played 3 Foderas in my life. I was not blown away by any of them. But maybe I just haven't tried the Fodera that's right for me yet. I don't know.
Certainly, this is all just my opinion, and it means no disrespect to Fodera at all. If I found one that I thought was beautiful and blew me away as far as tone and playability, and cost somewhere in the $4000 range, I'd go for it.
 
...That intangible carved in tuning is what makes a finer instrument finer. When you can no longer see the difference but you can feel it and hear it, that is the territory of the truly best individual makers...


for me the text i quoted is the long and short of it, someone here may tell me that im wasting my money on a fodera because something else is just as good at half the price i can never agree with them, the way the instrument feels is maybe the biggest factor for me, right after tone. you cant see how well a bass plays, and you cant hear it either. and that for me is why they are worth the extra.


Dave
 
OT: Watch thread!

:D

As another timepiece fan, I would argue semantics on this to some extent, specifically that plenty of diehard watch-heads will wax rhapsodic for Rolex. Not that they haven't become a bling trapping for the idle rich (and not that they are the "best"), but one can't discount the entire Rolex history because of it.

That said, my Rolex sits in a drawer. My daily wear is a Timex Ironman that is almost 2 decades old. It is scary accurate too...

Very true. My daily wear is a Seiko automatic, that is also scary accurate +/- 2 or 3 seconds a day.

lowsound
 
Interesting

I saw a guy show up to a bluegrass gig, mainly a classical player and had a very nice fully carved DB. Every redneck out there thought is was a POS cause it wasn't an old Kay. Me and him laughed about that. It's a damn shame when people judge solely with their eyes, but then again, that really is what this topic is hinting on.


LOL, I could see that. Those bluegrass and rockabilly guys are an odd bunch...


oh man, i remember reading a thread here YEARS ago, im thinking 2001 or 2002 talking about how lots of venues wouldn't let them play if they didn't have a Fender...

I really wish I could find that thread. While that is going away, looks are still important and most people i've run into outside of TB'ers regard Fender as the best.
 
One thing about Foderas is that they are probably the most "custom" of the high-end botiques (Benavente and Alembic probably are close). They have a bunch of body styles, most available in double or singlecut (if you're willing to pay), and most all of the models can be bolt-on, neck-through, or set-neck and contain whatever pickups/pre and woods you choose. Other high-end botiques like Ken Smith, MTD, Fbass, Elrick, etc. have limits on what they'll do. This is mostly to have some control over the outcome of each instrument regarless of specs, I imagine. The availability of all those options is probably an attraction to many.