Moses necks have truss rods. Older Moduli had fixed relief that didn't really move with changes in string tension. Newer ones are adjustable. I'm not sure about Zon, Status or others.
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Why aren't graphite necks more popular?
- Thread starter Tupac
- Start date
Moses necks have truss rods. Older Moduli had fixed relief that didn't really move with changes in string tension. Newer ones are adjustable. I'm not sure about Zon, Status or others.
They all have truss rods currently, Status and Zon have it one since at least 10 years. Not sure when Modulus started.
Re string gauge, I had a Status that came with 45 - 105 and I went down to 30-90 only working on bridge saddles. I was able to set a very low action with no buzzing.
The rationale behind graphite or carbon fiber neck construction is that the NECK is the part of the guitar that is most prone to flex. and that even with a truss rod, a wood neck will flex under varying temperatures and humidity. This is all theoretically true, but you need to look at some Variables:
1. Unfinished or Oil-finished necks are slightly more prone to humidity changes than Lacquer or Poly finished ones.
2. Single-piece wood necks are more prone to flex than multi-laminate necks IF... the woods in the laminate structure are chosen correctly and arranged according to grain pattern.
3. Some truss-rods are better at stabilizing a neck than others.
4. If a builder is looking for Sonic Consistency within a line of instrument models, wood does not guarantee this since no two pieces are exactly alike in grain structure.
Graphite necks are impervious to humidity and less responsive to temperature changes, therefore, they can provide lower action and usually avoid issues such as warping or kinking (S-curve) which often plague wood necks. The Acoustic Guitar manufacturer "Rainsong" makes guitars that are all graphite since they are located in Hawaii where it's hot with varying degrees of humidity. Acoustic bodies are very sensitive to this since the wood is so thin.
Many of the builders I know feel that the "Compromise Solution" of graphite-reinforced wood necks is not worth the extra cost, as thin strips of composite DO NOT prevent flex nor do they reduce weight. Even multi-laminate necks that use extremely dense species of hardwoods as a stringer (Black Walnut, Ebony, Bubinga, Wenge etc.) are prone to flex. I have played Modulus basses in the past and I did like the stability and low action, but I did not like the response and the "Cold" feeling. So far, the best-liked solution to stabilizing a neck seems to be Aluminum rod inlays in addition to a high-quality truss rod, used in a well-aged piece of hardwood, or wood laminate constriction.
1. Unfinished or Oil-finished necks are slightly more prone to humidity changes than Lacquer or Poly finished ones.
2. Single-piece wood necks are more prone to flex than multi-laminate necks IF... the woods in the laminate structure are chosen correctly and arranged according to grain pattern.
3. Some truss-rods are better at stabilizing a neck than others.
4. If a builder is looking for Sonic Consistency within a line of instrument models, wood does not guarantee this since no two pieces are exactly alike in grain structure.
Graphite necks are impervious to humidity and less responsive to temperature changes, therefore, they can provide lower action and usually avoid issues such as warping or kinking (S-curve) which often plague wood necks. The Acoustic Guitar manufacturer "Rainsong" makes guitars that are all graphite since they are located in Hawaii where it's hot with varying degrees of humidity. Acoustic bodies are very sensitive to this since the wood is so thin.
Many of the builders I know feel that the "Compromise Solution" of graphite-reinforced wood necks is not worth the extra cost, as thin strips of composite DO NOT prevent flex nor do they reduce weight. Even multi-laminate necks that use extremely dense species of hardwoods as a stringer (Black Walnut, Ebony, Bubinga, Wenge etc.) are prone to flex. I have played Modulus basses in the past and I did like the stability and low action, but I did not like the response and the "Cold" feeling. So far, the best-liked solution to stabilizing a neck seems to be Aluminum rod inlays in addition to a high-quality truss rod, used in a well-aged piece of hardwood, or wood laminate constriction.
As for all graphite, tone and feel. I like neither. I love how some of them look. And the quality and technology is there for sure. But I just never liked them . They felt and sounded "sterile" to me. And I'm pretty open minded when it comes to basses. I don't try to "go with the crowd". I like what I like and don't care what you think about it. But I couldn't get into them at all. I think my Fender RBV has rods, but I don't notice a huge difference. Like someone earlier said, it still has the dead spot on the 5th fret G string.
So, Ian, what you're telling me is that my aluminum-necked Kramer bass, with the wood inserts to keep it from feeling like -well, a cold piece of aluminum - was 'way ahead of it's time, and the wave of the future? COOL!!
I actually had the idea of an aluminum neck clad in wood veneer about 30 years ago but then Nancy Wilson walked into the club and I got distracted!
Travis Bean did all aluminum and I think Ampeg too. You hang onto that Kramer bass son.... soon the Heretics shall all see the light!!!
I think the older Steinys and old graphite basses have a distinct tone. Some dislike it and refer to it as cold. Some like the clarity however.
Modulus have a nice tone. You can fix any of the colder tone issues with a good pre amp or foot pedal board.
Status basses are really nice. A bit colder than Modulus, more like the old Steiny's, but more updated tonal and electronics I'd say.
Zon is in a different class and here's why: his necks are NOT graphite, they are composite. They offer the same benefits but not as cold. They have their own unique sound.
The above basses do not change when the weather changes.
I've also NEVER had to redo a neck or adjust them much at all.
Wood necks? Maybe a dozen I've had the displeasure of owning over the years. I'm over picky? No, not as much as other players I've met.
I like each bass I pick up to have a different sound and purpose. I do not want them to all sound the same.
The Kubicki ex Factor has a nice set up with the 1/16th inch laminates. This still has many of the characters of a graphite type neck, but has a nice tone and warmth. The neck will still bow, but not nearly as much. And the Truss is VERY easy to access and adjust.
I'm curious as to why that type of wood neck design is not more popular.
Modulus, Zon, and status to some degree all use wood tonal bodies these days, but a few have the full neck thru graphite designs.
All wood basses are hit or miss as far as that perfect tone. Some are simple epic basses, if.........you are lucky. Will they stay that way? Hopefully.
Graphite or composites? They are not going anywhere.
Yes, they do cost more than wood, but they are far cheaper than Alembics, Fodera, Ritters etc.
I had a single cut maple Redeemer that one of the best sounding and nicest low action or any bass I've ever owned.
And it was reasonable in price.
You can find the perfect bass, but you have to look and try many.
Modulus have a nice tone. You can fix any of the colder tone issues with a good pre amp or foot pedal board.
Status basses are really nice. A bit colder than Modulus, more like the old Steiny's, but more updated tonal and electronics I'd say.
Zon is in a different class and here's why: his necks are NOT graphite, they are composite. They offer the same benefits but not as cold. They have their own unique sound.
The above basses do not change when the weather changes.
I've also NEVER had to redo a neck or adjust them much at all.
Wood necks? Maybe a dozen I've had the displeasure of owning over the years. I'm over picky? No, not as much as other players I've met.
I like each bass I pick up to have a different sound and purpose. I do not want them to all sound the same.
The Kubicki ex Factor has a nice set up with the 1/16th inch laminates. This still has many of the characters of a graphite type neck, but has a nice tone and warmth. The neck will still bow, but not nearly as much. And the Truss is VERY easy to access and adjust.
I'm curious as to why that type of wood neck design is not more popular.
Modulus, Zon, and status to some degree all use wood tonal bodies these days, but a few have the full neck thru graphite designs.
All wood basses are hit or miss as far as that perfect tone. Some are simple epic basses, if.........you are lucky. Will they stay that way? Hopefully.
Graphite or composites? They are not going anywhere.
Yes, they do cost more than wood, but they are far cheaper than Alembics, Fodera, Ritters etc.
I had a single cut maple Redeemer that one of the best sounding and nicest low action or any bass I've ever owned.
And it was reasonable in price.
You can find the perfect bass, but you have to look and try many.
Dead right.
My Status has a bolt-on neck on a walnut body, it's about 25 years old and it has the best-playing neck; low-action and stable in all conditions, I've ever known. It sustains for ever and can twang, boing or make a lovely warm tone.
This (elderly) bass has no truss-rod, but the more recent Status basses do. Yes, only problem, (nice one, Sid) is they don't grow on trees.
I think most graphite necks have truss rods now. Certainly as the years have gone by the early promise of a graphite neck that will not in any way move or warp has proved inaccurate. Plus, you can adjust your own desired amount of relief with it.
I happen to like graphite necks. I GENERALLY find them clearer, precise, consistent, but not losing 'warmth'. I have experience with Steinbergers and a Status-necked P.
My main bass for the last 10 years has been a Modulus VJ. I am now at the point that I dislike wood necks mainly because they feel so foreign to me. It is amazing what you can get used to.
My Modulus has a truss rod but I have never touched it. I am able to get crazy low action, regardless of string type, just by adjusting the saddles.
My Modulus has a truss rod but I have never touched it. I am able to get crazy low action, regardless of string type, just by adjusting the saddles.
I think the reason composites haven't taken off is because guitarists/bassists tend to be very conservative where materials are concerned - guitarists especially so.
Players will reject an unfamiliar material without ever having touched, heard or played it just because they don't like the idea of this new material on their instrument.
I love the carbon-graphite necks a la Moses, Modulus, Status, etcetera.
Players will reject an unfamiliar material without ever having touched, heard or played it just because they don't like the idea of this new material on their instrument.
I love the carbon-graphite necks a la Moses, Modulus, Status, etcetera.
+1 Many guitarists are even more closed-minded, but I've met quite a few bassists who've never touched (much less played) a graphite neck who've made up their minds and simply parrot the stock objections ("sterile" sound, etc). I guess we all have our biases and bigotries but this one just seems silly to me. Anybody who bothers to try a product and give it a fair trial can offer an informed review. But it seems like less commonly available products are prone to armchair quarterbacks offering up their opinions (Alembic basses get this treatment just as often).
When I say cold, I definitely mean cold to the touch. Graphite is a conductor, not an insulator, and totally unlike wood in this regard, a scientific fact.
As far as its being hard, in the time I owned a Zon Sonus Special 5, it was my only instrument, and I came to not like the neck's very unyielding nature. Perhaps it was the contour of it. After extended playing sessions, at gigs or jams, my left hand, particularly my thumb, would feel almost contused from the extra pressure exerted by the harder surface.
The bass sounded great, but it was strangely unsatisfying to play. Just me, maybe. There are a lot of basses out there. I still hadn't found "The One".
Right. Next you'll be predicting composite materials will replace good old wood and become the norm for tennis rackets and hockey sticks.
My moses neck is one of the best necks ive ever played. Its definately the thinnest out if all of them. The only thing is for some reason whenever I go a few days without playing it it tends to go flat. My jazz on the otherhand I can go weeks without playing and it will be less than 10 cents off. The graphite tone is very versatile to me there are just a few situations where I would need somthing else to get the sound I want.
