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Why bother owning an amp
- Thread starter Tommygun_ted
- Start date
I blame Geddy Lee for the whole bass player DI thing. 
I'm with @TheLowDown33, for the last 10 years my sound is coming from preamp and effects so I don't really need an amp onstage anymore. My Eleven Rack is giving me a great SVT sound (with effects) out of XLR and DI to FOH. I use an 12" powered speaker with a 12" sub at home and like it better than having an amp. So I use whatever provided 12" powered speaker for monitor and that's it. I can bring the 12" sub if ever needed. I'm also looking for an Ampeg SCR DI that will fit in the gig bag, so much fun to pack everything in 10mins after the show and drink a beer watching the guitarist pack its equipment
But OP use whatever feels right for you and work with sound guy to make sure your stage level cooperate well with FOH sound.
Amen. I use a helix, but the idea is the same. It's seriously amazing how close it's gets to the real thing, and the portability, presets and ease of set up just seal the deal.
I'm running the PA (QSC Touchmix, tops and sub), and am frustrated trying to create a decent FOH mix with a silent stage. Guitar, V-Drums, vocals are great through the PA, but the bass (and to some extent the kick drum) just have no articulation. Even my Rumble 100 sounds better than the 2000 watt PA.
Also, I don't see the problem using an amp onstage to monitor, as long as it doesn't adversely affect the FOH mix.
Also, I don't see the problem using an amp onstage to monitor, as long as it doesn't adversely affect the FOH mix.
s0c9
Supporting Member
Are your tops and subs active (powered) and crossed over correctly ??
It's amazing how much mud you can remove by adjusting the subs HPF.
Absolutely! This is why the engineer needs to be a core member of a band, and not just a mercenary extra. This is not practical in modern times, which is part of why live music is in so much trouble, at least in this town.
Coming to a big stage gig with "your tone TM" conveniently available from an XLR helps a bit...
Tops and sub are active, crossed over at 80 Hz. I have played around with the HPF, and it's either muddy, indistinct bass, or not much bass if I increase the HPF freq. It is getting better, though, as I learn more about it. The venue obviously makes a huge difference, too. It sounded much better at last week's outdoor gig.
I think having a bass amp as a monitor is a great idea, depending on the venue.
I'm having the same problem going Bass > DI > FOH. Try a Sansamp (or similar) that have an EQ curve simulating a cab, add a bit of drive/grint and add compression on bass channel (mixer).
Exactly my thoughts. Looking at various offerings! (SanAmp, SpectraDrive, Tone Hammer, Ampeg SCR-DI, etc.)
Also, the mixer has a huge variety of EQ, dynamics, etc. that I'm learning about.
s0c9
Supporting Member
As an FOH guy, I have ZERO issues with bass amps on stage - as long as they don't overpower everything else. No different than anyone else using an amp.
80 Hz (to me) is a little low for crossing over subs.. but then, that does depend on the sub in question and the music being played thru it
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If I trust the monitoring system enough to hear myself loud and clear, then I have no problem running amp-less. I like the tone from my bass and pedals.
However, how often am I in a place that gets me my signal loud and clear? Hence, the amp.
However, how often am I in a place that gets me my signal loud and clear? Hence, the amp.
So for me, there are a few reasons I need an amp on stage. In my originals band, I use a lot of OD, distortion, fuzz and other effects. I like to mic one of my cabs and use the speaker as a sort of low pass filter, to make sure I'm not sending the desk too much top end - which may come across as harsh sounding. I still use the DI from my rack to send the FOH a clean signal so they have all their "utility" frequencies to ensure a good bass mix, then add my mic'd cab into the mix to sit in the same place a second guitarist would be (I'm in a trio). The other reason I need an amp is that often times I do not know what I'm getting into as far as house monitoring.
I have played large venues with great mains and horrible monitors, so I use my amp to hedge my bets that the stage mix will be good. Just this past weekend I did a small pick-up gig with my fretless and went without an amp, deciding instead to bring my JDI and a positive attitude. I could just barely hear myself enough to intonate, as the monitor situation was abysmal. I was really regretting not having a little amp there to provide personal monitoring.
Then there are personal reasons. I think a big 810 stack and a rack full of equipment is cool. I like using it. I guess you really have to dig it to lug all that crap around, though. Two 90lb cabinets and rack that weighs even more (though I have never actually weighed it) can be awfully burdensome at times, though I keep a hand truck with me to wheel it around pretty easily. Damn all stairs, though.
I have played large venues with great mains and horrible monitors, so I use my amp to hedge my bets that the stage mix will be good. Just this past weekend I did a small pick-up gig with my fretless and went without an amp, deciding instead to bring my JDI and a positive attitude. I could just barely hear myself enough to intonate, as the monitor situation was abysmal. I was really regretting not having a little amp there to provide personal monitoring.
Then there are personal reasons. I think a big 810 stack and a rack full of equipment is cool. I like using it. I guess you really have to dig it to lug all that crap around, though. Two 90lb cabinets and rack that weighs even more (though I have never actually weighed it) can be awfully burdensome at times, though I keep a hand truck with me to wheel it around pretty easily. Damn all stairs, though.
Personally I'd use what I want and FOH can deal with it. But...
For several years I used no amp because I got tired of hearing whining from the sound man. It was cool... Sounded like crap but my load-ins were were about 5 minutes.
If I could do it again I would.
Because they are lazy and spoiled by just plugging an xlr into a bass DI and calling it done.
If you're really serious about this get a good large diaphragm mic that sounds awesome and make it part of your rig.
I spent my whole career in p.a./lighting and have done FOH for lots of touring/ major label acts. I ALWAYS worked for the artist. ALWAYS!! If the bass player wanted x-d.i., and x-mic, and wanted his amp in the men's room HE GOT IT.
I'm not sure who you worked for, but where I worked the artist was God. There was a matter of mutual trust, where the artist counted on our judgement, but in the end, he ruled on every aspect of the show.
Levon Helm left out drum mic brands on the tech rider. He didn't like what I spec'd. It wasn't him that drove 90 miles round trip to replace the mics.
If everyone is running in ears then I could see a benefit, but if the bass is being run back through monitor wedges across the stage at a volume level sufficient to be heard over the mic'ed amps and drums, isn't bleed still going to be a problem?
Good Q!
I believe the idea with that set up is that the bass in the wedges will be so low that it minimizes the bleed. Just enough for the player their part. Otherwise, you are quite correct.
I once played at a concert hall that had a pre-configured back line with a small bass amp, but most of the bass sound went through the stage monitors. The bass sounded like a herd of elephants on concrete with respect to the onstage sound -- i.e. rumble rumble with nothing distinct; I have no idea what it sounded like in the house itself. I want a real bass amp onstage at all times, regardless of how "amazing" the house monitoring and FOH is.
As far as the OP is concerned though, acoustic based situations may be completely different. For those situations I might use a piezo bass and use the PA to its full advantage.
As far as the OP is concerned though, acoustic based situations may be completely different. For those situations I might use a piezo bass and use the PA to its full advantage.
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