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Why bother owning an amp

#121
fourstringburn said:
Not necessarily, a Shure SM 57 works just as good on Bass as it would on guitars and drums. These makes have been used on stages for over 40 years and can take high SPL's and can still be bought for around a C-note.
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They are a little light on the lows, though.
 
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#122
bdplaid said:
.

Oh please, any of us who've done sound know this is BS. Drums, guitars and especially cymbals, aka higher frequency sounds, get picked up the most. The problem with bass is that low freq is omnidirectional and the large waves come off the stage like gangbusters. But...
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Those same large pressure waves that come off the stage also cause the stage plate and other stuff on the stage to vibrate. I’ve measured it. It’s called acoustic coupling and it happens.

Lest you think this post has some kind of business spin to it; it doesn’t. My little devices do not help the issue. Stay tuned; I have a manuscript detailing the measurements. Should be available shortly. At that point, we can have a more fact based discussion.

Until then, let’s please be respectful, even if we disagree.
 
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#124
I play in an all-acoustic New Grass band (5 pc) no amps except for mine on stage. If the venue is big enough or we are outdoors I also go DI into PA. I play upright bass with this band - really don't like it if I don't have an amp behind me to feel the bass, even if volume on amp is low.

My suggestion - try it with an amp at a show (keep volume from amp at low-moderate level) and see how it goes. DI to FOH from amp, let sound guy set overall bass level.
 
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#125
bdplaid said:
If there are live drums onstage all bets are off regarding low volume bass in the monitors. Even the drummer wants to hear the bass. No, bass in wedges is a bad idea. Again, ask me how I know.

Low stage volume is definitely preferred, and in my book it's better to come from an amp simply because the amp sounds better than any bass through a vocal wedge.
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Again, I wasn’t advocating for that way of setting the sound stage. I was just answering the question. Please don’t shoot the messenger.
 
#126
I kinda on the fence about it, because really once the stage gets to the certain size, it doesn't matter how loud your amp is if you run up to the edge of the stage, you still can't hear it and you end up getting all your volume from wedges and side fills anyway.
Of course, I still enjoy standing in front of a fridge and feeling it, but when it's my turn to go up front and sing or run around, I can only hear monitors and sides.

I've done gigs where the amp shutdown and I never noticed. the DI was still running fine, and it sounded good !
 
#127
I have to admit I've changed my thinking on this issue. Since I've been running sound much more for the last couple years I've realized that its better to get a DI signal for the FOH. Most bassists I've been working with EQ according to their ear on stage from their rig, which is NOT what sounds best out front. Getting a signal from the the DI before the guy EQs it works best in my situations. I always make sure the bass sounds as good as I can do for the guy...it's my job to do that. It's not because I'm lazy. I work for the venues and they want me to make the band sound as good as possible, so that's what I do :). I have more guys leaving amps in the car and just having me put them in the monitors. Easier on the back too...it's a trust thing. As soon as I say "hey I'm a bassist too" they tend to trust me. Lots of guys still do the "bass" knob way up and the middle zeroed so its all mud and nothing comes through the mix. Mids are our friends right??? :)
 
#129
HolmeBass said:
At 150 Hz and up the directionality of your cabinet and the cardioid mic pattern should provide plenty of isolation. Only the super low freqs are fully omnidirectional.
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My data were mainly gathered at 200 Hz. No particular reason for that choice, except that there is significant bass content there. I did verify there were no odd ball resonances going on. I used a 4’x8’ sheet of 5/8” plywood on a frame; the standard stage plate on the mobile risers we all get to play on. The induced vibration in the stage sheet was significant with three different cabs, and generally not affected by isolation devices placed beneath the cabinet. There is a bit more to it, but, you will have to wait for the paper.

What I will say is that all the experimental details are there. So, anyone is free to check what was done. That’s the way it works. Science is objective.
 
#131
bucephylus said:
Those same large pressure waves that come off the stage also cause the stage plate and other stuff on the stage to vibrate. I’ve measured it. It’s called acoustic coupling and it happens.
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While this is true, it varies greatly from situation to situation as to whether it screws the pooch or not. It's definitely not a given. It was rare on my gigs where I mic'ed that it happened. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any time it did.
bucephylus said:
Not sure what your point is Jimmy. Obviously the bass is in the mains, and this a significant part of the performance. I’m not advocating for that approach, was just answering a Q. Any particular reason for the apparent call out?
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Because it sounded to me like you were advocating that approach :D If you weren't, mi mistako, but while I get the idea that all live sound is a series of compromises, I just think that some folks take it way too far one way or another. Like I'm not going to use 4 SVT's all on 11, but just because someone did is no reason I shouldn't be able to use one at least. I'm miserable enough onstage without taking ALL the joy out of it.
 
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#134
JimmyM said:
While this is true, it varies greatly from situation to situation as to whether it screws the pooch or not. It's definitely not a given. It was rare on my gigs where I mic'ed that it happened. As a matter of fact, I can't think of any time it did.

Because it sounded to me like you were advocating that approach :D If you weren't, mi mistako, but while I get the idea that all live sound is a series of compromises, I just think that some folks take it way too far one way or another. Like I'm not going to use 4 SVT's all on 11, but just because someone did is no reason I shouldn't be able to use one at least. I'm miserable enough onstage without taking ALL the joy out of it.
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LOL, hey at least you’re positively miserable! Could be worse.

No, I’ve never gigged with bass only in wedges. To me, that would be kind of like playing tennis in the middle of the court with balls bouncing at your feet all the time = no fun at all. Still people do it.

Part of me agrees with the earlier post that all of these issues are just part of R&R, get over it. The thing is that the improvements in the FOH gear are already putting pressure on us, gig depending. I know, as if you didn’t know, right? I like hearing the different perspectives. That’s part of sorting things out.

And, believe me, I have zero against the SVT. Great amp.
 
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#135
I like to have the right tool for the job when it comes to a gig. I think it is most efficient when there is FOH to run direct from the bass amp or a dedicated DI. However, I have had the sound man mic my cab with a Super Bassman driving the speakers. Whatever he or she is most comfortable with is fine with me.

I definitely have played many gigs where there was no FOH support for the bass. In this case, it's nice to have a good powerful amp set up that fills the space properly. Again, right tool for the job applies.

Bones
 
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#137
To me, my bass amp IS PART OF MY TONE. It is something I've worked at developing along with my technique- making the amp work in a certain way.

For some sound guy to take a DI off the bass itself or not mike the cab is like telling the drummer to "just play by slapping your hands on your knees; I can make that sound like drums in the FOH" is just not right.

Some guys (Tim Commerford, Rob Weston) have been known to NOT use a DI in either live or recordings. as a matter of fact, Tim DEMANDED no DI on the Evil Empire album!

Now some players like the Hi-Fi sound of a DI'd bass. I'm not one of them. Sounds like you aren't either, since you have a V4B (which does HAVE IT'S OWN TONAL CHARACTER).
 
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#139
I like my bass amp but I can see the validity of your question . These days you really may be able to get by not using one in a lot of situations . I just like playing thru one at home and do not gig so I really need to have one or it’s thru headphones and that’s not always my preference .
 
#140
Slough Feg Bass said:
I kinda on the fence about it, because really once the stage gets to the certain size, it doesn't matter how loud your amp is if you run up to the edge of the stage, you still can't hear it and you end up getting all your volume from wedges and side fills anyway.
Of course, I still enjoy standing in front of a fridge and feeling it, but when it's my turn to go up front and sing or run around, I can only hear monitors and sides.

I've done gigs where the amp shutdown and I never noticed. the DI was still running fine, and it sounded good !
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This is the classic reason for going IEM !!! :):bassist::hyper:
Same sound every gig, on every stage.
 

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