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Why cant a PJ sound like a real P

#61
Disclaimer - I own 4 Jazz basses and one P. I would fit an extra pickup to the P if hell froze over. But that's a mojo/vibe thing more than actually thinking it could change the tone if I soloed the P pickup.

As for the body routing for the second pickup or the extra magnetic pull influencing the sound... come on, be serious here. That's almost as silly as the claim that screwing a pickguard to your bass changes the resonance of the body in a way that audibly affects the tone. :D
 
#62
bassybill said:
Disclaimer - I own 4 Jazz basses and one P. I would fit an extra pickup to the P if hell froze over. But that's a mojo/vibe thing more than actually thinking it could change the tone if I soloed the P pickup.

As for the body routing for the second pickup or the extra magnetic pull influencing the sound... come on, be serious here. That's almost as silly as the claim that screwing a pickguard to your bass changes the resonance of the body in a way that audibly affects the tone. :D
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I agree about the routing, but I have no idea about the string pull though.
I was under the impression that string pull was a sustain thing, doesn't really affect tone.
 
#63
Like most bass players, I have a gain knob on my amp.
Whatever difference in output I may get from one bass to the other can easily be compensated by turning said knob up a fraction of a turn.
Can it be heard anyway? Not at all, unless you decide it can.
Does it change tone from a P to a PJ? Not one bit.
Talk about splitting hair.
 
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#66
Nice timely thread.
Im hoping to get a Nordy NP5 put in my Lakland DJ5 at some point very soon. Im not in to the Jazz tone at all, at least, not this one.
Ive been wondering if it will make a difference and will indeed sound like a "proper" P bass.
I love my Fender P5 tone but the neck on the Dj5 is way better.
So, just to recap (ive not read every single post yet) putting the NP5 in will give me a P thump/tone ect and will sound very different to how the bass sounds now. Is that right?
Ill decide later if i want to get rid of the bridge pup or change the pot layout as has been suggested. I might not even bother having the back pup wired in. All i want is a 5 string P with a great neck.

Sorry if thats going over old ground. Just want to be clear before i spend even more money and possibly mess my new bass up.
 
#68
line6man said:
A PJ bass in the VVT or VBT arrangement will not sound like a true P bass because of the presence of a second volume pot in the circuit, which decreases the resistance from signal to ground, reducing output.

Aside from issues of string pull, as long as you are able to remove the extra pot, the tone should remain the same.

Another issue is that sometimes matched PJ sets can be wound differently to sound better blended, at the expense of the authentic tone when soloed.
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Now, there's no arguing any of that due to the electronic properties of the components involved, but honestly...P-basses sound so different from bass to bass that none of this would ever matter in real use. A little EQing or the right compression could make most Fender PJ-basses sound like most Fender P-basses, assuming you have that bridge pickup dialed out. Live or in the studio, having that extra pickup in the circuit won't be noticeable to the listener. I don't know a single bassist that would be able to consistently tell, in any mix, whether or not the bass had a dialed-out J pickup.

So, in regards to the TC, you can make your PJ (or JPJ, in the case of the Urge basses) sound just like a real P-bass. Mess around with the mids, especially the high-mids, and no listener would be able to tell the difference.
 
#69
when you roll the j vol all the way off you still a high resistance connection to ground (through the track), it doesn't cause an open, i suppose unless you have a no load Vol 2 pot.. not sure..

if someone else doesn't get it, keep your attitude to yourself, unless you really know what the facts are..
 
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#72
hello zombie thread :D

Heres my $.02 --- If you are using a microscope with low enough power not to see the nits being picked, then it sounds like a P to me and certainly nobody will be none the wiser in the context of a mix or even on a recording (player dependent, of course)....however, if you increase magnification, there will be discrepancies where I go "Mmm, not exactly a P-bass" but there will also be differences between actual P-basses at this power.....YMMV and all dat jazz
 
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#73
Having owned several p-j's and having experimented with lots of pickups, I can say this : As the thread already reflects, there is no definitive answer.
I can summarize my experience by saying not all p-j setups are equal or even similar. I have had them sound as P as can be soloed or not. You just have to find "the one" Might take some time.
Some p-j's don't work together well either, some are phenomenal. Best wishes in your search
 
#75
chadhargis said:
The answer is easy. After your next gig, ask a random audience member if they could tell if you were playing a P or a PJ. See what they say.

There's your answer.
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A random audience member (she was a little drunk) once asked me, after the gig, if I was the "sexy saxophone player," so I'm not sure I'd use that as a litmus test.

If you play a PJ (or any bass) and dig the way it sounds, cool. FWIW, I switched from 250K to 500K pots in my main bass and, with the pickups that were in it at the time and through my fairly revealing rig, the difference was marked -- different pickups, rig, strings, player, or settings and it might have been less so.

As others mentioned in this thread (in 2009), I have a three-way switch on my bass and like that setup, both because of the quick changes it affords and because (however small the difference might be) it lets me take the J and its associated volume and tone pots out of the circuit when I solo the P.
 
#76
MarkA said:
A random audience member (she was a little drunk) once asked me, after the gig, if I was the "sexy saxophone player," so I'm not sure I'd use that as a litmus test.
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That's my point.

We all get so caught up in what we believe to be "big" differences in tone, when in fact, most people who don't play bass would never notice.
 
#77
PawleeP said:
when you roll the j vol all the way off you still a high resistance connection to ground (through the track), it doesn't cause an open, i suppose unless you have a no load Vol 2 pot.. not sure..

if someone else doesn't get it, keep your attitude to yourself, unless you really know what the facts are..
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Lol Why did you necro bump a 9 year old thread?
 
#78
chadhargis said:
That's my point.

We all get so caught up in what we believe to be "big" differences in tone, when in fact, most people who don't play bass would never notice.
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I see what you're saying -- or at least I think I do -- but I'm not sure I'm entirely on board.

I admit to having spent way too much time (along with a good deal of money) thinking about gear and its effects on tone, feel, etc. (and my posting history here reflects it). Nuances of tone and feel matter to me and I believe that little differences add up (even for the audience). I've also had great, fun gigs and made booties shake playing cheap basses through nondescript rigs. I think that there's some truth to be found on both sides -- and there have been plenty of discussions on TB around this issue -- what, exactly, matters and how much depends on context.

If I like your sound and you're laying down a solid groove, I'll most likely be grooving along, not judging your gear. Given my 'druthers, though, I'll still take that three-way switch on a PJ. ;)
 
#79
My PJ is P with an added J, and it sounds like a P, so I'm not sure what the problem is.
I've got a 3-way tele-type switch in there, so no blending, no loading, none of that stuff. Just P OR P+J OR J
v6Oh7H4.jpg
 
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#80
byacey said:
The phase between the J pickup and P pickup will have more of an effect on tone when used together than any pot loading will. If you're really concerned, install a FET buffer for each pickup, and mix the signals after the buffer outputs.
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Well of course the tone with both pickups on depends on, well, both pickups. However impedance does matter. A FET buffer may not be the answer either. The point is that the impedance of the loading on the P pickup filters it's tone. The pot is only part of the circuit there is also C and L values of the pickup coils. The whole thing makes a filter that creates a certain tone. If you remove the loading impedance with a FET buffer you totally change the circuit which can change the tone even when the J is off. What I did with mine and it worked pretty well, was to double the ohms of the two volume pots. If you look at the VVT circuit you notice that even though the J pickup is off, the second pot is still in parallel with the P pickup pot. So when you double the pot values it brings the P-only loading back to that of a straight P-bass. Mine works quite nicely. My biggest complaint is that my J output (ultra Jazz) is lower than the split P pickup. I'd prefer it if the tone was just right if I dimed both volumes, but even with a little unbalance you just tweak the VV controls to get what you want.
 

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