Why cant we all read?

[Brad Johnson]

When you play in a band with especially complex music (including prog-period Yes), chances are at least some of the members know how to read and write. For one thing, it's a tool for composing efficiently.

And good luck getting with a Frank or Dweezil project without reading skills. Tall order even with them. Speaking of the benefits of reading and writing: Stevie Vai credits Frank with really helping him develop as a guitarist early on, with all the transcribing he was first hired to do. He said it made his brain a lot more accomodating.

Jimmy, you got that Chris Squire "christmas" album?

If mentioning Macca or other rockers is seen as cherry-picking, mentioning Zappa projects is...?

 

[bassbully]

Why? I will never use it or highly doubt that i ever will. If i took the time too try to learn my wife would only nag me for spending more time away from her, family ,chores etc to do "music" or "band" stuff and hassle me. Is that what you want? I might to have to quit my band and playing to study sight reading???? I would have to give 100% of my free time to reading. Its the only way I could stand to suffer thru that mind numbing stuff. I learned (had) to read as a kid in music class and hated it! Music has to be fun and reading isn't IMO!
Nobody i have ever played with ever reads AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh I"M FREAKIN OUT MAN!!!!!..sorry...better now

 

[Greevus]

Mac and Zap are two great bits of proof for all sides of this argument. Respect to both for all reasons.

 

[Sketchy]

I had keyboard lessons for about seven years, and I just used to get mixed up with the lines and dots, and I used to have to spend ages slowly figuring it out, because I just could not get the hang of reading and not mixing up the lines, no matter how much I tried, but I can remember the hand movements and the music really quite easily, so I always ended up putting it to memory and just using that.

 

[greenboy]

If mentioning Macca or other rockers is seen as cherry-picking, mentioning Zappa projects is...?

Take the high school debate team technique to those who actually mentioned either Macca or cherry-picking in their posts. I sure didn't ; }

 

[greenboy]

Mac and Zap are two great bits of proof for all sides of this argument. Respect to both for all reasons.

Right on. Also, got to give Macca and the other lads credit for not only putting a gazillion hours in on stages in Hamburg, but for having the good sense to work with and learn from George Martin, who fed them with a lot of theory one way and another, which informed their writing greatly.

 

[Faderoktopus]

Real musicians read!!! The rest are just hacks. And some hack real well. You don't need to read to play a very narrow slice of the music spectrum (thats most of us). You ever go to a jam. Most of the time is spent on "do you know ______"? "do you know______"? "do you know_______"? Its relatively easy to memorise a pentatonic scale then sit in and improvise with any blues band. Yes you don't need to read to look at the pictures and get something out of a book. But reading opens up the whole world. Let me repeat, reading opens up the "WHOLE" world. Most of us don't need that cuz our little slice of music (blues, country, rock etc.) can be memorized and then "who needs to read music". You know whats even easier, handing every musician a piece of paper then playing it perfect on the first try. If you don't want to learn how to read music DON'T. There is a reason most folks are not musicians

I agree that reading is a valuable skill and would recommend it to anyone, but this is just terrible. Reader or not, it is not really a musicians attitude to claim to know which musicians are "real". I completely understand those who feel offended by these types of comments and don't wish to be associated with the readers who offend. Who are we to decide if other musicians are making excuses? They have their priorities, fine by me as long as they perform their parts of the music. In my original band we are two readers out of five musicians, this has never slowed down the creative process or the rehearsals. I would certainly say that we are all equally real musicians.

 

[gai113]

You can be an amazing player and NOT know how to read.....

-TRUE

Does reading help? Yes

Why havent i learned how to read?

Im lazy..


and sorry You can be a real "musician" and not know how to read a single note of music....


Look at all the great blind musicians....

 

[JimmyM]

You can be an amazing player and NOT know how to read.....

-TRUE

Does reading help? Yes

Why havent i learned how to read?

Im lazy..


and sorry You can be a real "musician" and not know how to read a single note of music....


Look at all the great blind musicians....

agreed with everything you said. what you left out, though, was the fact that by comparison to those who can read, the number of musicians who are really good at it and can't read is miniscule by comparison. the vast majority of those who never learn to read chop away at their instruments for a little while, get frustrated, then stick it under the bed where it stays until their future wife makes them sell it on ebay.

so yes, it can be done, and if you're reading this and you can't read and you're really good with music, consider yourself extremely lucky that you won the genetics lottery.

 

[fourstringburn]

Why can't we all read? Because Gene Simmons, Nikki Sixx, Bobby Doll, and others that people seem to hate in this forum can play a bass without reading so why can't we? Besides, all you have to do is memorize more fretboard patterns than other people and you will instantly be a better musician than the above mentioned

 

[fdeck]

I think another barrier to reading is simply that the instruments of rock & roll represent an alternative to formal schooling and to the authority of adults. If you enjoy playing music because it's a break from school, or from an organized work environment, then I can understand how more school or more work might not seem very appealing.

For this reason, I am, and will continue to be willing to give non-readers a break. Have fun. My only motivation is to help make reading seem less esoteric for those who are on the fence.

 

[Batmensch]

agreed with everything you said. what you left out, though, was the fact that by comparison to those who can read, the number of musicians who are really good at it and can't read is miniscule by comparison. the vast majority of those who never learn to read chop away at their instruments for a little while, get frustrated, then stick it under the bed where it stays until their future wife makes them sell it on ebay. so yes, it can be done, and if you're reading this and you can't read and you're really good with music, consider yourself extremely lucky that you won the genetics lottery.

Ya got any actual statistics to back that up?

 

[Michael Vee]

"Why can't we all read?" I can read, and that's why I've been able to do over 60 music theatre shows. They aren't everyone's cup of tea, in fact most bassists shun them, but they can be such an excellent venue to play these days. You can't generally play MT without being able to read.

MV

 

[Brad Johnson]

Take the high school debate team technique to those who actually mentioned either Macca or cherry-picking in their posts. I sure didn't ; }

I wasn't debating you but the junior high response was amusing.


Someone else mentioned it. I quoted the zappa thing for context. That's how threads work.

 

[3506string]

Why can't we all read?

Because reading hasn't, isn't and never will be a prerequisite to making music.

Having said that it is an extremely useful tool for those that want to make music, it just isn't a necessity.

 

[Brad Johnson]

agreed with everything you said. what you left out, though, was the fact that by comparison to those who can read, the number of musicians who are really good at it and can't read is miniscule by comparison. the vast majority of those who never learn to read chop away at their instruments for a little while, get frustrated, then stick it under the bed where it stays until their future wife makes them sell it on ebay.

so yes, it can be done, and if you're reading this and you can't read and you're really good with music, consider yourself extremely lucky that you won the genetics lottery.

You'd have to define "really good". If you're opening this up to include all musicians vs. bassists...

 

[fourstringburn]

You can be an amazing player and NOT know how to read....

True, one can be an amazing player, but then be musically illiterate if you can't read music. Have you ever listen to Billy Sheehan try to explain some music theory behind his playing? he sounds like a complete moron yet I think he is one of the most amazing rock players out there.

and sorry You can be a real "musician" and not know how to read a single note of music....

I disagree, you can be a great "player" and songwriter like most of the rock players out there, but how does that give one the prestigious title of musician considering all the great masters of music that have been around for centuries?

Gene Simmons is the biggest example of ridicule on this forum. Many of you claim he is not much of a musician but he is just like many of you. You both play bass and can't read music, yet he is constantly vilified. Maybe some of you should re-evaluate your "musician" assessments of others to yourself.

Look at all the great blind musicians....

The only two I'm aware of are Stevie Wonder and Ray Charles. Both were musically literate and wrote charts for themselves and others.
Beethoven was deaf in his last years, but was such a master of music, he scored his 9th symphony completely deaf. Imagine that? Writing for a full ensemble of brass, woodwinds, strings, percussion, and even a choir section into 4 movements all without ever hearing it! That's way beyond me and you!

 

[Mayers]

I would never disrespect non-readers - played with some awesome guys who read neither music nor chords nor anything. One keys player even couldn't remember song titles. We hummed the first few bars for him between songs He was a killer by ear player. Took me some time to feel his spontaneous chord changes and substitutions coming, but after that, no problem

As I said before, bass guitar education is the issue. Non-readers are mostly self-taught guitar, bass guitar and drums players. Once they reach a certain level, learning to play from written music is a major setback.

Horn, strings, keys players etc. take lessons and are made to read by their teachers from day 1. If the only way to learn bass guitar were by taking lessons, most of us would read as well.

I think you are right. This is what going on.

 

[JimmyM]

Ya got any actual statistics to back that up?

oh please! do you seriously need a scientific study to see that? you've got to be kidding me. to even think for one second that the majority of people who buy instruments and don't learn how to read can actually play them well is asinine.

 

[Melik]

Not talking about hobbiest. Im talking about guys who work regularly and more so the guys who play to eat and pay the bills.

Yea well Paul McCartney can't read and he's earned his bread commendably