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Why cant we all read?
- Thread starter Jpeachbass
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no matter how much you work out and lift weights
it still wont stop the truck driver in the 18 wheeler behind you, who's been eating hamburgers his whole life, from having a heart attack and crashing into you
it still wont stop the truck driver in the 18 wheeler behind you, who's been eating hamburgers his whole life, from having a heart attack and crashing into you
I have yet to see the bass lines for rock or pop songs written out in musical notation. Tabs on the other hand are easy to find. It would be nice if something like Paul Simon's solo in "You Can Call Me Al" were written out.
then write it out. i have seen it printed out in bass player mag a long time ago, but it's been a couple decades.
folks, if learning to read music doesn't fit into your plans, that's fine. i don't think any less of anyone who takes it less seriously than me. but it will really open your eyes to a way of playing music that you aren't experiencing now and it just might help you enjoy it more. that is a fact. and if you want that, it's there for anyone to check out. but if you're happy as it is, then may you have a great time doing your thing, but i can't recommend you as a sub on my oldies gigs
I'm going to copy/paste this into every thread on Talkbass since it's conventional wisdom is useful in every topic imaginable.
then write it out. i have seen it printed out in bass player mag a long time ago, but it's been a couple decades.
folks, if learning to read music doesn't fit into your plans, that's fine. i don't think any less of anyone who takes it less seriously than me. but it will really open your eyes to a way of playing music that you aren't experiencing now and it just might help you enjoy it more. that is a fact. and if you want that, it's there for anyone to check out. but if you're happy as it is, then may you have a great time doing your thing, but i can't recommend you as a sub on my oldies gigs
Just let 'm call me instead, Jim...
Seems to me (though I haven't read all of the posts) folks are missing an important distinction. One can understand all the theory of music and notation, and even write great music and still not be able to sight read. For example, Dave Bruebeck has written and scored amazing pieces of music but admits he can't sight read. He got through Music Conservetory till they discovered in his last year that he couldn't read. He thoroughly understands the structure and theory, he just managed to do what he wanted to do without "reading."
sounds to me like you may not get what "sight reading" is. apologies if you do get it, but sight reading is reading a sheet of music for the first time, and is not the act of reading music in general. a lot of folks who know how to read music can't sight read. i suspect dave brubeck knows where the notes are on the page, but just may not have good reading chops and doesn't need it because he's dave brubeck.
but let's assume he can't read a note...he is what you call a natural. some folks are. the vast majority of us aren't. knowing how to read music and knowing theory helps people who aren't naturals to make sense out of it. without learning to read music, i don't think i ever could translate what was in my head to an instrument.
Roscoe, very true, if by sight reading you mean playing from sheet music that is.
As it is the other way around. I know lots of sight readers who don't understand theory and are unable to play from chords sheets, let alone by ear.
But if for a single gig I can choose between a good sight reader and a by ear player, I take on the sight reader. I write out his stuff, give him one rehearsal and off we go. Did that many times, especially when the call was for a large band.
I really don't feel like waiting till everyone in the band has memorized the stuff.
As it is the other way around. I know lots of sight readers who don't understand theory and are unable to play from chords sheets, let alone by ear.
But if for a single gig I can choose between a good sight reader and a by ear player, I take on the sight reader. I write out his stuff, give him one rehearsal and off we go. Did that many times, especially when the call was for a large band.
I really don't feel like waiting till everyone in the band has memorized the stuff.
Back when I was gigging, I was in bands where none of us could read. Rehearsals were definitely kind of a drag trying to communicate parts to one another, using sign language to demonstrate a rhythm to the drummer. You know, that whole bit.
I did learn to read bass clef in high school when I played trombone and was not bad at sight reading but I never did sit down and translate what I learnt to the bass.
There were lots of arguments back and forth in those horrible Jeff Berlin threads some months ago about reading, musical styles that were unwritten and so on, which some of us may recall. So I won't go back into those issue here again.
But if I could buy a new left hand and resume gigging, I'd almost certainly try to pick reading back up again. For most musical styles involving the bass, I can definitely see its usefulness and it'd be critical if you were going to make a living playing bass....
There are some transcriptions I'd like to learn to play too, so even when not gigging, not being able to read is a definite limitation. Time permitting, I'd like to "get around to it" and pick it back up this time for the bass.
LS
Didn't want to learn the plays, just wanted to PLAY BALL!
Trns: Too much fun diggin' in and jamming to spend the hours, days, weeks, years deciphering score.
In the long run, it would have helped discover new modes and styles, but I always wanted to play to inspire others, not play for my own education.
Learned how to sight read back in school orchestra/band on flute. But the school never really touched any theory, so I never learned about chords, keys, modes, etc.
Now that I'm learning bass, and mostly jazz with some rock - using a lot of chord charts - I've HAD to learn theory. Still aspects of it I'm having problems wrapping my brain around, and it takes a while sometimes to work out stuff. Plus, on flute there's only one fingering for each note - not true for bass, and I'm still - even after two years - not always sure where each note I'm reading is on the neck; and working out the best / easiest left hand fingering / fretting for my hands takes a while. Heck, I have to work around a few times with tab to be able to figure out the best fingers to put on which fret at times! So I'm certainly not good enough to be a session player of any stripe. (Nor is there much call for that sort of work in this area.) I'm getting to the point where I can play with a band, at least. But, for me, I've decided to keep on learning music reading & theory because I suspect that in the long run it'll make me a better bass player. Obviously, YMMV...
Now that I'm learning bass, and mostly jazz with some rock - using a lot of chord charts - I've HAD to learn theory. Still aspects of it I'm having problems wrapping my brain around, and it takes a while sometimes to work out stuff. Plus, on flute there's only one fingering for each note - not true for bass, and I'm still - even after two years - not always sure where each note I'm reading is on the neck; and working out the best / easiest left hand fingering / fretting for my hands takes a while. Heck, I have to work around a few times with tab to be able to figure out the best fingers to put on which fret at times! So I'm certainly not good enough to be a session player of any stripe. (Nor is there much call for that sort of work in this area.) I'm getting to the point where I can play with a band, at least. But, for me, I've decided to keep on learning music reading & theory because I suspect that in the long run it'll make me a better bass player. Obviously, YMMV...
It takes time, but you get to a point where your fingers know where to go. And it's not an all or nothing affair, but a matter of gradual improvement over a lifetime. Step back from it and look at what progress you've already made. It does keep getting better.
The string players have exercises that force them to finger things in a variety of ways.
Something to note: As adults, we're not as quick on the uptake as we were as kids. That's life. It's one reason why I "push" reading on younger players.
I can remember taking lessons on guitar at a young age and I hated the Mel Bay books I was learning from. I wanted to play Kiss and AC/DC and my teacher was a country/jazz player. I figured out I could write "numbers" on my own sheets and "fake" my reading. I had no idea what "tab" was back then. I could play it fairly well, buy my teacher saw my whited out music with my own tab and went ballistic on me. He berated me and told me I would never make it, etc. I think this inspired the rebel in me to NOT WANT to sightread. I went and hung out with my guitar friends and they taught me how to play Cream, Boston, AC/DC, etc, and that was the end of it for me.
I never looked back. I did take some Megadeth and Slayer to another teacher briefly and he said "you can't transpose that" and he said both would never last as bands.
I quit all lessons after that and got way better much quicker.
Not hating on reading. It's like the metal threads. Lots of assumptions as to why some of us won't read and actually enjoy being "metal" and "intelligent" at the same time.
I never looked back. I did take some Megadeth and Slayer to another teacher briefly and he said "you can't transpose that" and he said both would never last as bands.
I quit all lessons after that and got way better much quicker.
Not hating on reading. It's like the metal threads. Lots of assumptions as to why some of us won't read and actually enjoy being "metal" and "intelligent" at the same time.
What's up with that hand?
PM me if you like - I'm interested in cases like that for my health pages.
you and I, my friend, tend to have rather strong opinions, wouldn't you say
Yes we do... and humble rarely enters into it. That's why I didn't get the comment. I never use IMHO.
At this point I honestly don't think that many of the people who are doing what you're talking about even realize they're doing it. That would explain the righteous indignation afterwards.
If you list them it might be surprising... or at least eye-opening. IME there are far more that don't require it...
unless you lump "work that doesn't require reading" into one big pile.
I would never disrespect non-readers - played with some awesome guys who read neither music nor chords nor anything. One keys player even couldn't remember song titles. We hummed the first few bars for him between songs
He was a killer by ear player. Took me some time to feel his spontaneous chord changes and substitutions coming, but after that, no problem 
As I said before, bass guitar education is the issue. Non-readers are mostly self-taught guitar, bass guitar and drums players. Once they reach a certain level, learning to play from written music is a major setback.
Horn, strings, keys players etc. take lessons and are made to read by their teachers from day 1. If the only way to learn bass guitar were by taking lessons, most of us would read as well.
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