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Double Bass Why did Steve Swallow switch?

#41
I saw Swallow w/ Scofield trio at the Regattabar in Boston, usually a really boomy room, and his sound was beautiful..... his sound was incredibly warm.The edgy sound from the pick must have been eaten up a bit by the room...

BTW... check out Chickens, a tune of his on Gary Burton's Throb... He overdubs a db melody over an electric line he put down.... Very cool.
 
#42
Bruce Lindfield said:
I think we had a discussion around here about how many people hear timbre of music last - but I have always heard this first - so maybe the timbre of sound is more important to me, than other people, who are hearing melody,rhythm etc. first and giving this priority.

If I don't like the overall timbre of the sound then I can't get past that - maybe my loss...?
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Do you think this is a rod for your own instrumental back in that it takes ages to get really good sound out of most accoustic instruments? On the other hand perhaps its a big advantage as a player as long as it doesn't leave you perpetually disatisfied with your own tone?

Whatever, the bass player I found it impossible to listen to critically becuase of the awful (to my ears) '70s scratchy peizo type sound is Brian Kellock's bassist. Can't remember his name.

As for Steve and everyone else, they should play what they feel happiest with since that will produce their most natural expression and Steve deserves points for ignoring fashion, going with this personal flow and making it work.

Haden can talk - he's hardly your typical bass-player and should appreciate a fellow musician determined to follow his own path as indeed he has.
 
#43
Bruce Lindfield said:
Well, I suppose it's personal taste but Eberhard Weber sounds so much more "organic" to me - he has a unique sound but it alway fits in with what he's doing - whereas Steve Swallow's sound is "jarring" to me - as in, sticks out like a sore thumb! :hmm:

I think we had a discussion around here about how many people hear timbre of music last - but I have always heard this first - so maybe the timbre of sound is more important to me, than other people, who are hearing melody,rhythm etc. first and giving this priority.

If I don't like the overall timbre of the sound then I can't get past that - maybe my loss...?
Click to expand...

I agree with you in principle that timbre is very important. I just don't understand what's wrong with a clear, bright, bass guitar sound.

I mean, when you talk about any other instrument "muddy and unfocussed" is not exactly desirable. Why should it be with bass? I would think (and my practice is) that considering that the room is frequently working against you in terms of uncontrollable reverb and bass traps, you might want a clear sound.

It would be nice to live in a utopia where we just sit around and play acoustic instruments without amplification for a handful of admirers. We could all use gut strings. I play gigs in reality with large crowds and if my sound is not clear, they won't hear me. Is that good?
 
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#44
Mike Crumpton said:
Do you think this is a rod for your own instrumental back in that it takes ages to get really good sound out of most accoustic instruments? On the other hand perhaps its a big advantage as a player as long as it doesn't leave you perpetually disatisfied with your own tone?

Whatever, the bass player I found it impossible to listen to critically becuase of the awful (to my ears) '70s scratchy peizo type sound is Brian Kellock's bassist. Can't remember his name.

.
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Well yes - that's probably why it's taken me several years to find a DB I liked - I was happy with EUB as it has a nice, smooth sound that you can just plug in and play!

Whereas, I have heard a lot of student DB players really struggling to get anything other than the scratchy piezo sound you mention, out of amplified DBs! :hmm:

So there have been many times at Jams/Workshops/Classes where there have been a few bass players and it almost seemed unfair that I was getting a bassier and more rounded tone out of BG or EUB than others were getting out of their amplified DBs...;)
 
#45
Futurebass said:
I agree with you in principle that timbre is very important. I just don't understand what's wrong with a clear, bright, bass guitar sound.

I mean, when you talk about any other instrument "muddy and unfocussed" is not exactly desirable. Why should it be with bass? I would think (and my practice is) that considering that the room is frequently working against you in terms of uncontrollable reverb and bass traps, you might want a clear sound.

It would be nice to live in a utopia where we just sit around and play acoustic instruments without amplification for a handful of admirers. We could all use gut strings. I play gigs in reality with large crowds and if my sound is not clear, they won't hear me. Is that good?
Click to expand...

I think you've misinterpreted or misread my posts - I like loads of Bass Guitar and EUB players in Jazz - I've named a few in this thread with great tone that suits Jazz and whatever they play - in fact, just about the only well-known Jazz player whose tone I don't like is SS!! ;)
 
#46
Bruce Lindfield said:
I think you've misinterpreted or misread my posts - I like loads of Bass Guitar and EUB players in Jazz - I've named a few in this thread with great tone that suits Jazz and whatever they play - in fact, just about the only well-known Jazz player whose tone I don't like is SS!! ;)
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Sorry for misunderstanding!

I think the defining statements of bass guitar have been made mainly by rock bassists. So if people, even if they are playing jazz, go for that sound it's OK with me.

Generally I prefer upright for jazz, but if the musician is good enough it doesn't matter that much.

Electric Upright Bass sounds great, but it hasn't been used by enough people long enough to have developed its own identity. Except in Salsa!
 
#47
Futurebass said:
I think the defining statements of bass guitar have been made mainly by rock bassists. So if people, even if they are playing jazz, go for that sound it's OK with me.
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Well, actually the first publicised use of BG by a well-known artist was in a Jazz band!! ;)

So, if you read Jim Robert's book - "How the Fender Bass Changed the World" he posts the page from DownBeat magazine of July 1952, which was basically the first publicity for BG being used in Lionel Hampton's band - by Ray Johnson and then more famously by Monk Montgomery (Wes's Brother).

So the headline is :

"Hamp-lified Fiddle may lighten Bassists' burdens!"

Lionel Hampton was the first to say how the sound "cut through" and he could actually hear the notes the bass was playing! :)
 
#48
Bruce Lindfield said:
Well, actually the first publicised use of BG by a well-known artist was in a Jazz band!! ;)

So, if you read Jim Robert's book - "How the Fender Bass Changed the World" he posts the page from DownBeat magazine of July 1952, which was basically the first publicity for BG being used in Lionel Hampton's band - by Ray Johnson and then more famously by Monk Montgomery (Wes's Brother).

So the headline is :

"Hamp-lified Fiddle may lighten Bassists' burdens!"

Lionel Hampton was the first to say how the sound "cut through" and he could actually hear the notes the bass was playing! :)
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Monk M. is wonderful. I have an LP (I think called "Bass Oddysey") where he did some multi-tracking, playing the lead on fuzz bass. Really nice.

What I said about rock bass players means I think the instrument really came into its own as something more than a substitute for upright when John Entwistle started doing all those wild solos.
 
#49
Jimmy Rowles won a Grammy for some kind of lifetime achievement award or the reissue of some Billie Holiday sides or somethiung. Anyway, when the interviewer asked if, looking back over his long career, he had any regrets, he said "Yeah, I regret I didn't burn down the Fender factory."
 
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#51
Steve plays a custom built 5-string (hi C) 35" scale Harvey Citron bass with a custom gauge set of LaBella roundwound strings, and he uses a copper pick. The bass has bridge piezos only. Live he always uses an early 70s Walter Woods amp and rented speaker cabinet(s).

His transition from DB to EBG came at a NAMM show in 1970, when he tried a Gibson EB-2 bass.

This I have from the man himself.

Mikael
 
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#52
Well now BG lovers and those who suspect that DB isn't the be-all and end all how about this form an interview with Sonny Rollins in September's Jazzwize magazine (its a UK pulbication BTW).

Interviewer:

In the 70s when you moved to an electrified funky version of your band, Bob Cranshaw, who played magnificently on acoustic on 'The Bridge' switched to electric bass. This made sense in that era but some of us have expressed desire to hear you backed by the acoustic instrument again.

Sonny Rollins:

That is your opinion and you are entitled to it. I acually think Bob sounds more like an acoustic bassist on electric bass than most players I've heard. Sometimes it's hard to tell he is playing elelctric because he plays it in an acoustic manner, with me anyway.

Interviewer:

There is a clarity and simnplicity to his lines, he plays without ego.

Sonny Rollins:

He's definately an accompanist.

Unfortunatley the interview then moves on to drummers so that we are left to guess what it all means. Obviously that Bob Cranshaw is good acompanist. After that there are a whole series of conclusions that could be drawn. It is unfair to make too much out of a couple of sentences but one may surmise that the role and attitude of the player are more important than the instrument perhaps? However, Sonny does seem to be hankering after a DB ethos - and IMHO there is one - IMHO you play different lines on a DB. IMHO SS plays, apart form being himself, in a DB -like manner.
 
#55
Hey gang - I got to see Mr. Swallow play last night at Yoshi's in Oakland! Great show..... not heavy on the chops but very much on the composition side. I have a new appreciation for the rest of the players in that band. So here's what I gleaned....

Gear: Some custom 5-string hollowbody thinline axe straight into one of the smaller walter woods heads. The axe was probably tuned EADGC with a c high - or that kind of idea. Cab was an SWR 4x10. Despite all that power, SS played with alot of dynamics and was playing soft alot.

Technique: Yep, I was right - he up-picks... but he does it in a way like a guitarist would. Guitarists usually start with a down-stroke, and he just starts it with an upstroke instead. I couldn't tell what kinda pick he uses but the bassist I was with also agreed that it was a copper pick. SS also picks way up on the neck, on top of the last several frets in the high register. Soloing, he'd use the 5 string alot while Carla Bley would comp and also play some bassline thing behind him. About his LH finger.... seems like he was using all 4 strings most of the time. At the nut he may have been reverting back to 124 fingering. It was hard to tell.

Anyways, thought you'd might be curious.
 
#57
hdiddy said:
Gear: Some custom 5-string hollowbody thinline axe straight into one of the smaller walter woods heads. The axe was probably tuned EADGC with a c high - or that kind of idea. Cab was an SWR 4x10. Despite all that power, SS played with alot of dynamics and was playing soft alot.
Click to expand...

His bass is built by Harvey Citron (Link Removed) - 36" scale, EADGC tuning, tight string spacing.

hdiddy said:
Technique: Yep, I was right - he up-picks... but he does it in a way like a guitarist would. Guitarists usually start with a down-stroke, and he just starts it with an upstroke instead. I couldn't tell what kinda pick he uses but the bassist I was with also agreed that it was a copper pick. SS also picks way up on the neck, on top of the last several frets in the high register...
Click to expand...

Saw him last year in London with The Lost Chords band and agree with your observations. I noticed that he keeps the ring and "pinky" finger of his picking hand firmly planted on the body of the bass at all times. SS uses Dunlop copper plectrums and La Bella 'Deep Talkin' strings (if people want to know).
 
#58
I saw the Lost Chords last Friday at the Jazz Bakery (in L.A.). Like folks above, I was struck by where Swallow picked, right in the middle of the second octave. Besides thinking about his luthier endlessly fixing the divots those metal picks could take out of his fingerboard, I realized he was picking exactly where he'd pluck a DB. Obvious, but I can't recall another bass guitarist I've seen do that (but I haven't seen Bob Cranshaw live).
 
#59
Jeff Schwartz said:
Besides thinking about his luthier endlessly fixing the divots those metal picks could take out of his fingerboard, I realized he was picking exactly where he'd pluck a DB. Obvious, but I can't recall another bass guitarist I've seen do that (but I haven't seen Bob Cranshaw live).
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Similarly, it would make sense that he's upstroke heavy since a DB would be played the same way, ie. Upstroke = pizz pluck.
 

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