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Double Bass Why did Steve Swallow switch?
- Thread starter Futurebass
- Start date
Yeah, I pulled it up on Rhapsody last night - killer album, I have never really listened to Swallow, but that's my fault - I think the best thing (from the 4 songs I listened to) is that he has his own sound - you can't argue anything about that! I wish I had my own sound.....maybe in about another 20 years! 
Bruce Lindfield said:...To me it sounds like synth bass or as if he's used a ring modulator - a sort of 'clangy' sound ?.
Bruce
I believe I read somewhere that he uses a copper plectrum. That with his roundwound strings and piezo bridge transducers would tend to produce a very bright metalic sound I would think. I have an old recording of him playing with Gary Burton, and hid sound on that recording is much more mellow and bassy.
Jon
Bruce Lindfield said:I really wish he hadn't switched, as I'd love to hear this album with DB.
Maybe, if you ask him real nicely, he might switch back . . .
but I doubt it.
Apparently Charlie Haden tried and obviously failed. Haden thought it was a shame that Swallow decided to drop the DB altogether and was kinda upset about it. I think he(Haden) said to him that if he were to switch back, that Haden would do a duet recording with him. I read it in an interview in Downbeat or something like that.Freddels said:
hdiddy said:
About 25 years ago I met Haden and he gave me a lecture about not playing bass guitar, that it was a toy and if I was serious I would switch to upright.
But when I told him I played acoustic bass guitar (Ernie Ball Earthwood) he thought about it for a minute and said that might be legitimate.
Many years ago I asked Ron Carter "what do you think of the EB as a jazz instrument? His response was "I don't".
He proves that in his slab solo on "Red Clay".Freddels said:
Regarding Swallow; I Googled on his name this morning (man, he's done a s***load of recording!) and found a site with some quotes. One of them said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Sometimes, when I find a great (double) bass backstage at a festival, I'll play an open E string, just to feel the vibration in my chest". So maybe there's still hope.
You can like it or not, but you have to admit, it is very identifiable and unique. I happen to like it for what it is. Kind of has it's own niche - not DB but not really a typical BG tone either. I think the sound of the bass works well on "Quiet". But come on, Fingernails on the Chalkboard? That is pretty extreme, especially coming from a long-time EUBer, which to me is another example of a sound in an "in-between" category.Bruce Lindfield said:I've said before but I just really don't like his tone - so this made me think , as I bought John Scofield's "Quiet" which has some really nice tunes and arrangments with a kind of acoustic vibe - but Steve Swallow's tone is really jarring and out of place in this setting.
To me it sounds like synth bass or as if he's used a ring modulator - a sort of 'clangy' sound ?
No doubt he plays some interesting stuff - but I just can't get past that synthetic sound and it really stands out to me - like running your fingernails down a blackboard.... unpleasant!
I really wish he hadn't switched, as I'd love to hear this album with DB.
Marcus Johnson said:He proves that in his slab solo on "Red Clay".
Someone with less-discerning ears asked me how I knew he was playing bass guitar and not upright on that track (the bass sound on the whole record is pretty un-acoustic...) and I pointed out to him those moments when you can hear the clams where the finger lands on top of the fret and not behind it. Makes me wonder if it was his choice of instrument on that track in the first place...
T-Bal said:
Well, I bought my EUB because I liked the sound - how it was much smoother and acoustic-sounding than many amplified DBs I'd heard!!
On the "Quiet" sound - it may depend on what gear you listen - so it is a pretty Hi-Fi recording and and on my Hi-Fi setup I can really hear that metallic edge that must come from the metal pick(as jneuman says) and it sounds really grating - even more so as there are some lovely brass ensemble sounds and wonderfully rich acoustic guitar - but then for it to be spoiled by a metallic,clangy, electronic bass sound ...
But maybe if you are listening to it on a less than Hi-Fi setup, it wouldn't notice so much?
Bruce Lindfield said:Well, I bought my EUB because I liked the sound - how it was much smoother and acoustic-sounding than many amplified DBs I'd heard!!
On the "Quiet" sound - it may depend on what gear you listen - so it is a pretty Hi-Fi recording and and on my Hi-Fi setup I can really hear that metallic edge that must come from the metal pick(as jneuman says) and it sounds really grating - even more so as there are some lovely brass ensemble sounds and wonderfully rich acoustic guitar - but then for it to be spoiled by a metallic,clangy, electronic bass sound ...
But maybe if you are listening to it on a less than Hi-Fi setup, it wouldn't notice so much?
Hell Bruce - from posting at work to Sunday in a bank holiday weekend
. I read about Steve saying he liked the attack he got and how he couldn't stop playing it (bg). I know what he means - you can just pick it up and walk about - well I do, and you can be so much more facile on bg - areas that are a pig on db are no problem. Attack is important IMO. I try to have good attack and frontend welly that defines the beat and has a shape to the note. Bg does this far more easily - as long as the loon playing it recongises its a bg with its own sound and doesn't try to make it sound like a db. When bg players do that, you get this shapless lifeless note completely lacking in attack that fails to cut through except by weight of volume. It doesn't have to be so but it wont sound like a db and shouldn't. Bg has its own quality of sound. Steve has found a way to use it. I think it is a vastly under-used resource in jazz because of preconceived ideas about what bass should sound like. There's aping a db, sounding like jaco and then? IMHO Jaco wouldn't be my choice to drive a swinging band but there you go. I was never one much for fusion.Having come off a windswept bandstand with the gale blowing a thundering rumble down my mike and the amp on the limits of feedback something electric would have been welcome, especially after two and a half hours in half position, mostly on the E and A string.
However, Steve it was an artistic choice. He is a consumate artist for me, and although I get jealous of the bgs facility, he just sticks to being tastfull and melodic - soloing with much the same compositional sense as his excellent tunes.
I'll now spoil it by saying my favourite SS albums are the two he did on db with Paul Bley re-released on ECM that some scrote swiped from me - ho hum.
Mike Crumpton said:
I was going to mention these but you beat me to it. Theres 3, if you mean the trio of SS, Paul Bley and Jimmy Guiffre (Fusion and Thesis are my favourites, rereleased by ECM as 1961, and the other and most famous one is called free fall)
or did you mean a different trio?
oliebrice said:
These are THE ones - I couldn't remember the titles. This is a lesson in small group playing that IMHO hasn't dated in style or content. I will have to shell out for another copy. I don't remember having heard Free Fall. Manfred Eicher of ECM was such a fan of these out of print items he bought the master tapes for the cd generation.
Mike Crumpton said:Hell Bruce - from posting at work to Sunday in a bank holiday weekend
Well - this was kind of a "one-off" for me, as I was sucked into watching the test match, as this has been such an exciting series - so usually there are too many other things to do at weekends - but then when England won and it was such a relief - I just had to say something about it to our Australian members on TB....
Well I suppose, I was a big sucker for fusion and a big Jaco fan - so Jaco's tone was always a big draw for me - but I listened to loads of fusion with funky (ish) bass lines and love these.
As for what else - amongst English players - I like Laurence Cottle's playing in straight ahead Jazz, as well as Dudley Phillips' 6-string BG playing - it was seeing him play with "the Perfect Houseplants" that got me intrested in Jazz after decades of playing rock/pop!
For US players - John Patitucci's BG playing is very nice IMO - but there are quite a few more - too many to name here!
Mike Crumpton said:
You'd remember...Free Fall is way more atonal than the Verve/ECM recordings and has a lot of solo clarinet pieces. The Sony CD reissue has notes by Steve saying the trio broke up after they did a NYC gig for the door and took in less than $2
The trio reunited for some recordings in the 90s with Steve on BG...a two CD set for Owl and one CD for Soul Note. Giuffre says in the liner notes that he likes the bass guitar BETTER than the upright because he can actually hear was Steve is playing. One track is a clarinet/bass duet entitled "the Big Guitar and the Black Stick"
There are also two wonderful HatHut CDs of the Giuffre Trio playing the Verve/ECM material during a 1961 German tour.
brianrost said:The trio reunited for some recordings in the 90s with Steve on BG...a two CD set for Owl and one CD for Soul Note. Giuffre says in the liner notes that he likes the bass guitar BETTER than the upright because he can actually hear was Steve is playing. One track is a clarinet/bass duet entitled "the Big Guitar and the Black Stick"
I saw them play several shows at Sweet Basil about 10 years ago. That was amazing! Their music is completely timeless. One night Swallow couldn't make it so Gary Peacock played. Excellent.
And when the music is that great whether Swallow was playing upright or guitar is pretty irrelevant.
Yeah Bruce - I don't dislike Jaco by the way - and the players you mention sound like - well themselves on their bg - this is good.
Eberhard Weber, as you know, has an EUB and he plays it and has it sounding like - well no-one else but him and certainly not an attempt at a db sound. This I also think is v good. And like SS he's decided he is now an EUB player and this is his instrument. The players you mention do both of course!
I saw Steve S with Bley and Jimmy G who looked about to keel over and shortly after did. I remember my teach coming out enthusing after the gig. SS played bg of course. For gear freaks he used Hartke 1*15 and a 4*10 - a bit OTT in the circumstances. (I just couldn't miss the aluminium speakers - that's all folks - I don't normally care too much.
Eberhard Weber, as you know, has an EUB and he plays it and has it sounding like - well no-one else but him and certainly not an attempt at a db sound. This I also think is v good. And like SS he's decided he is now an EUB player and this is his instrument. The players you mention do both of course!
I saw Steve S with Bley and Jimmy G who looked about to keel over and shortly after did. I remember my teach coming out enthusing after the gig. SS played bg of course. For gear freaks he used Hartke 1*15 and a 4*10 - a bit OTT in the circumstances. (I just couldn't miss the aluminium speakers - that's all folks - I don't normally care too much.
Well, I suppose it's personal taste but Eberhard Weber sounds so much more "organic" to me - he has a unique sound but it alway fits in with what he's doing - whereas Steve Swallow's sound is "jarring" to me - as in, sticks out like a sore thumb!
I think we had a discussion around here about how many people hear timbre of music last - but I have always heard this first - so maybe the timbre of sound is more important to me, than other people, who are hearing melody,rhythm etc. first and giving this priority.
If I don't like the overall timbre of the sound then I can't get past that - maybe my loss...?
I think we had a discussion around here about how many people hear timbre of music last - but I have always heard this first - so maybe the timbre of sound is more important to me, than other people, who are hearing melody,rhythm etc. first and giving this priority.
If I don't like the overall timbre of the sound then I can't get past that - maybe my loss...?
