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Why did YOU sell your Schroeder?

#21
Here's where I throw my 2 cents in.

First. I sold my 1210 because it wasn't loud enough. Yep - not loud enough. and was pretty middy - but then I went to a Bag end setup (HELLO MIDS)

Now I have a 21012. And after all my pissing and moaning. I've decided to keep it (and possibly see if jorg will retrofit my cab with the light speakers). I belong to a band with a VERY thick mix. The rhythm guitarist and I fight all the time for LF space (you know the type - RHYTHM guys that play les paul's on the rhythm pickup ALL the time with an overdriven amp and insist that the tone is good. To me it sounds like crap.)

Once I learned how to look objectively at the 21012- it's strengths and weaknesses - I've been able to use it. I have yet to take it out to a gig because it's big and I'm still afraid it may boom too much.

First I realized that my T-funk amp and my 21012 were not good bed fellows when trying to produce the tone I wanted. I've since changed amps. I now run an SVP-cl preamp into a DCM1500. Next I realized that my PJ had a bit of a scooped sound on my favorite settings and it's possible that the T-funk and 21012 didn't like my p-bass. So now I've got a jazz with a p neck and model J's.
Next - I have big fingers and I characterize the natural tone of my hands as grunty - It might mean that I'm plucking a very strong first and second octave tone out of my basses.

The reason Jorg'c cabs work is that they have a bump in the second octave off the fundamental. Bill Fitzmaurice was mentioning about how many cabinet builders construct small boxes that accentaute the second octave of the bass range to make the bass "sound" more full and have cut, without actually producing a strong even fundamental. That's when I light bulb went off for me. Jorg took this idea to an extreme, especially with the "horn" loading of the side firing speaker to raise the efficiency of the cab in the low mid bump (the side speaker acts like a low pass filter - tuning the cabinet)
The 21012 has a stronger low end due to this tuning but it also explained why - when I cut 120hz on T-Funk -the cabinet noticably lost overall volume in the low end.

SO, rather than fight the natural resonance of the 21012 - i'm going try to and let it work for me by desining a Loud Rock rig around it. If it doesn't work - I'm almost certain that a driver change to lights will work perfectly.

And that's my take on schroeder cabinets.

They certainly aren't for everyone - but I'd be a fool to get rid of a cabinet that is so obviously designed to handle thick mixes well.
 
#22
BassJunkie730 said:
Here's where I throw my 2 cents in.

First. I sold my 1210 because it wasn't loud enough. Yep - not loud enough. and was pretty middy - but then I went to a Bag end setup (HELLO MIDS)

Now I have a 21012. And after all my pissing and moaning. I've decided to keep it (and possibly see if jorg will retrofit my cab with the light speakers). I belong to a band with a VERY thick mix. The rhythm guitarist and I fight all the time for LF space (you know the type - RHYTHM guys that play les paul's on the rhythm pickup ALL the time with an overdriven amp and insist that the tone is good. To me it sounds like crap.)

Once I learned how to look objectively at the 21012- it's strengths and weaknesses - I've been able to use it. I have yet to take it out to a gig because it's big and I'm still afraid it may boom too much.

First I realized that my T-funk amp and my 21012 were not good bed fellows when trying to produce the tone I wanted. I've since changed amps. I now run an SVP-cl preamp into a DCM1500. Next I realized that my PJ had a bit of a scooped sound on my favorite settings and it's possible that the T-funk and 21012 didn't like my p-bass. So now I've got a jazz with a p neck and model J's.
Next - I have big fingers and I characterize the natural tone of my hands as grunty - It might mean that I'm plucking a very strong first and second octave tone out of my basses.

The reason Jorg'c cabs work is that they have a bump in the second octave off the fundamental. Bill Fitzmaurice was mentioning about how many cabinet builders construct small boxes that accentaute the second octave of the bass range to make the bass "sound" more full and have cut, without actually producing a strong even fundamental. That's when I light bulb went off for me. Jorg took this idea to an extreme, especially with the "horn" loading of the side firing speaker to raise the efficiency of the cab in the low mid bump (the side speaker acts like a low pass filter - tuning the cabinet)
The 21012 has a stronger low end due to this tuning but it also explained why - when I cut 120hz on T-Funk -the cabinet noticably lost overall volume in the low end.

SO, rather than fight the natural resonance of the 21012 - i'm going try to and let it work for me by desining a Loud Rock rig around it. If it doesn't work - I'm almost certain that a driver change to lights will work perfectly.

And that's my take on schroeder cabinets.

They certainly aren't for everyone - but I'd be a fool to get rid of a cabinet that is so obviously designed to handle thick mixes well.
Click to expand...


cool thoughts,

gigging anytime soon? would love to hear the onslaught firsthand. ;)
 
#23
jokerjkny said:
after listening to a Schroe, EVERYTHING starts to sound soft and pillowy. ;)
Click to expand...

Eh? I would have put those shoes on the opposite feet. I find the lows on the Schroeder cabs to be more bloomy and less controlled, relative to Bergantino. The Schroeders are certainly louder, and have more low end boom (but I happen to not prefer that).

Tom.
 
#24
jokerjkny said:
cool thoughts,

gigging anytime soon? would love to hear the onslaught firsthand. ;)
Click to expand...

Sure,

haVeBlue is playing the Pussycat Lounge on April 20th (thursday) at 8pm (yeah we ticked off the booker for Lo-Fi because of our weak draws so now we have to "earn it")
We've also had some personel changes so bringing new drummers and lead guys up to speed always takes time.

please PM the name of the outfits you play with as I'd love to come check your stuff out too- You are a drummer and guitarist as well?

Infact Anyone that gigs in NYC - please tell me and I'll come out to see you. This goes double for those Long Island kids that are trying to play CBGB's before it closes, are underage, and every last body they can fit in the place counts (even though Hilly will never give you a cut of the door - jackass)

I digress,

Yes my relationship with schroeder is all about Love/Hate - but comeone what good relationship isn't!!!

I was watching some Chris Rock stand up last night.

"the fun relationships are the Bad ones!" "Married and Bored" or Single and lonely"

Give me "single and lonely" with my schroeder anyday.

"So whatchou gonna do?"
 
#25
BassJunkie730 said:
Sure,

haVeBlue is playing the Pussycat Lounge on April 20th (thursday) at 8pm (yeah we ticked off the booker for Lo-Fi because of our weak draws so now we have to "earn it")
We've also had some personel changes so bringing new drummers and lead guys up to speed always takes time.

please PM the name of the outfits you play with as I'd love to come check your stuff out too- You are a drummer and guitarist as well?
(...)
Click to expand...

crap, gigging too that night. :(

but no doubt, cub scout, this summer's lookin' quite gig nutty. you're more than welcome to follow the econo-van-caravan. ;)
 
#29
My comments on the Shroeder at the gtg....

Volume: Very impressive. Almost seems to defy the laws of physics

Size: Again, VERY impressive. I'd love to be able to haul such a small cab and be able to do a gig with it

Tone: Ehh...it's tough to tell. I HATED the tweeter. Very harsh sounding with my playing it, and it was only turned up to 9 oclock. It sounded better with Ken playing it, but I still didn't like the tone much. I for one, thought Ken sounded better through almost anything else, especially his TF/Epifani rig (seems to be the PERFECT rig for Ken's style...he's a DAMN GOOD player) , and the Berg IP's.

I thought the low end was a bit indistinct and mushy. Again, I MUCH preferred the low end on Ken's other rig.

The TRUE test for me would be hearing it in a band mix. I'm well aware this is where the Shroeder-o-philes say these do best, so count me as "undecided". Based on my limited experience, not for me, but again, I'd have to play one in a band mix to know for sure.
 
#30
jokerjkny said:
hey tough guy,

how did you like 1212 w/ the 1210? would you have gone w/ a second 1210 instead if you had the chance?

just curious...
Click to expand...
Hey there Daddy-O... together, they really do sound fantastic. They complement each other well, with the 1210's insane punchiness and musical upper registers and the 1212's rounded, thicker low end. But, like I said, I only need one.

I bought them both to try them each out... I was never going for a multi-cab stack or anything, so I never even considered doubling up on 1210's. But each one sounded so appealing in its own right that I couldn't just choose one.
 
#33
I sold my 410r last week and already miss it. I needed to sell because I am currently not gigging and needed the cash for business reasons. But, when the need comes back for another cab, I will definately be getting another Schroeder 410r. It was just the cab that suited all my needs. Hell, I already offered to buy back the one I just sold!
 
#34
One thing that might account for some of the difference in opinion is 'ongoing development'. Is everyone listening to the same thing? My 1212 sounds quite different (to me at least) with cast frame drivers compared to the steel frames it shipped with. If memory serves I think I read some of the newer versions now ship with the selenium tweeter stock. And the xover has changed. Who knows how many different drivers have been used as the products have been developed? Like the website says "...specifications are subject to change without prior notice."
 
#36
I've been trying but I haven't sold it yet. Seems like you can't give these things away. Definitely "light in the loafers".

The MXR M-80 is the only thing that's stopped me from lighting the 21012 on fire. If you have watts to spare and enough EQ, it can sound pretty good for clean tone. But it'll make a mighty Ampeg sound small, and I'm sure even a Mesa 400+ will sound thin and dry through one.

It's horrible with distortion, and even worse with a Ric.

Let me know when Jorg builds a BASS cab.
 
#37
I think i might sell my 1210 at some point soon. its not that i dont like it but i just miss the sound of a 1x15.
My other thought is i may try and swap it for a 4ohms 1212 if i can find one.
In fact i hated my sound at the last gig. just couldnt get on with my ABM/1210 sound. it was ok close up but the lows seemed to dissapear out front. so i got rid of the ABM and got a MB SA450. ill give the two a go on friday at a gig but if i dont like the sound ill see about getting rid of the 1210. its just such a nice size.
Any thoughts about what i could replace it with. i really only want a small 1x15, in an ideal world one about the same size as the 1210 and it must be 4ohms.
Thanks
 
#40
I can totally understand not like the Schroeder (or any cab for that matter) and selling it.

But the comments above about distortion and 'farting' out don't make sense to me. Love them or hate them, in my experience one of the things virtually everyone agrees with is that they are almost 'unfartable':D I've had 1200 watts pumping through my 1210 at stupid loud volumes with no distortion at all.

Is this maybe an issue of a grindy tube sound being made harsh by a tweeter?... I know from others' posts that a full range cab with a tweeter can sound pretty nasty with an SVT grind-like sound.

Anyway, just curious since even those that hate these cabs agree they are just loud as the bejeebers:D
 

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