Why Didn't Powered Cabs Catch On?

[ProbablyTooLoud]

...or maybe they did and I can't tell.
I'm a few years late to the powered cab party.
I got some GK gear and was psyched to use their powered cabs - but they're now discontinued and not easy to find.

Anyone have any ideas on why the whole powered cab thing didn't get popular?
Seems like a great idea to me. Preamp to cab and that's it.
Am I missing something?

 

[Reedt2000]

It's probably too close to a combo for most players. I guess the benefit is the ability to swap in different preamps but a lot of people run pedals that are essentially preamps for different color or drive so probably not attractive enough to grab a large enough part of the market.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I too thought it was a good idea. But apparently, we are in the minority.

The GK Chain system as I understand it did not use levels that were compatible with other "line level" standards found in pro-audio use. While they would work, you had to either boost or attenuate to get full use with anything but a Chain compatible device. I also do not know if the Chain system used standard XLR pinouts.

But more to the point, having GK Chain may have precluded the use of another brands of amps or cabs.
This may have contributed to limited use, and by extension, unpopularity/low sales. If something doesn't sell, it's destined to be shelved.

The Chain system, had it caught on snd become a standard among manufacturers, could have been a game changer. I think it certainly had technical merits. But there could have been issues that crop up when the competition is involved. "It's a great idea but we won't acknowledge it, as it might benefit the competition."

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

I too thought it was a good idea. But apparently, we are in the minority.

The GK Chain system as I understand it did not use levels that were compatible with other "line level" standards found in pro-audio use. While they would work, you had to either boost or attenuate to get full use with anything but a Chain compatible device. I also do not know if the Chain system used standard XLR pinouts.

But more to the point, having GK Chain may have precluded the use of another brands of amps or cabs.
This may have contributed to limited use, and by extension, unpopularity/low sales. If something doesn't sell, it's destined to be shelved.

The Chain system, had it caught on snd become a standard among manufacturers, could have been a game changer. I think it certainly had technical merits. But there could have been issues that crop up when the competition is involved. "It's a great idea but we won't acknowledge it, as it might benefit the competition."

In GK's case, I think the whole proprietary thing was a mistake. A gamble on their part that didn't pay off. If they'd played like Android/PC instead of Mac/iPhone I think they could have sold a lot. But I'm not really an expert, nor do I have as many years checking out cabs and amps as a lot of y'all around here do.

I guess they were the guinea pigs, and the other companies saw them fail at this wrinkle in the industry, and passed on it.

Or maybe another company is planning a new approach to the same concept.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

It's probably too close to a combo for most players. I guess the benefit is the ability to swap in different preamps but a lot of people run pedals that are essentially preamps for different color or drive so probably not attractive enough to grab a large enough part of the market.

Right - but wouldn't powered cabs open up options? Pedalboard plus cab, no amp needed?

Bu that would require compatibility, which GK def did not want.

 

[Ric Vice]

There aren’t that many bass specific powered speakers. I have three different MAS powered speakers that I use with a Grace Design Preamp or a 3 Leaf Audio Enabler. They’re great but all these systems are more expensive than a combo or head and cabinet. Even buying a decent QSC P.A. speaker and the Headway EDB-2 new would be more expensive than buying a inexpensive stand alone amp i.e. GK or even Acoustic Image. Just my take.

 

[Reedt2000]

Right - but wouldn't powered cabs open up options? Pedalboard plus cab, no amp needed?

Bu that would require compatibility, which GK def did not want.

Most players stick pedals in front of their combos and don't even think about the fact they've got 2 or more preamps (plus the one or sometimes two in their bass!). Compatability would need to be a must for that scenario. Some front end gain adjustment on the power amp to accommodate different preamps. I just don't think it's that attractive to your average bassist, it's a solution looking for a problem. Many combos will let you bypass the internal preamp if you really want to.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Most players stick pedals in front of their combos and don't even think about the fact they've got 2 or more preamps (plus the one or sometimes two in their bass!). Compatability would need to be a must for that scenario. Some front end gain adjustment on the power amp to accommodate different preamps. I just don't think it's that attractive to your average bassist, it's a solution looking for a problem. Many combos will let you bypass the internal preamp if you really want to.

I bypass the preamp on my MB211ii with the aux in, and use the Plex as a preamp.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

...or maybe they did and I can't tell.
I'm a few years late to the powered cab party.
I got some GK gear and was psyched to use their powered cabs - but they're now discontinued and not easy to find.

Anyone have any ideas on why the whole powered cab thing didn't get popular?
Seems like a great idea to me. Preamp to cab and that's it.
Am I missing something?

UPDATE:

Mr. Gallien hisself chimed in on another thread to say the MBP cabs are not discontinued (I apologize for the bad info) but they're paused because they can't get all the parts they need for production. He said they'd be making them again early next year.

Psyched on that news.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Most players stick pedals in front of their combos and don't even think about the fact they've got 2 or more preamps (plus the one or sometimes two in their bass!). Compatability would need to be a must for that scenario. Some front end gain adjustment on the power amp to accommodate different preamps. I just don't think it's that attractive to your average bassist, it's a solution looking for a problem. Many combos will let you bypass the internal preamp if you really want to.

Totally.
Not to mention that if you have an active bass and plug it into the front end of a typical amp, you're also stacking preamps.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

The benefit of a powered cab as I see it is that you can use it with you IEM setup when you need a cab for practice, small gigs or monitoring. Extra steps can be made with the amp now in the cab such as IRs, protection, HPF, etc. Wait, isn't that just a PA cab? And it really is with something like the QSC K12.2 doing a good enough job for anyone that wants one.

 

[Wasnex]

I agree that GK's proprietary approach is a force that limited the potential success of powered bass cabs. My understanding is they were essentially powered extension speakers intended for use with GK combo amps...thus not fully compatible with regular preamps. These were moderately priced.

Bergantino had powered cabs based on their HT line. I believe these had line level inputs. They were expensive.

The only other powered bass cabs I can think of is the ISP Bass Vector series. The ISP Bass Vector Pro and Beta Bass preamp received very good reviews. From what I remember they were pretty expensive, and also the cabs were large and heavy (scaled for arena type gigs). As you probably know the market is now focused almost exclusively on small and light.

I think a big reason why powered cabs have not caught on is they simply were never common enough to break through. In order for a new product to gain a footing in the market, it needs high enough sales to break over from losses into profitability. If there is money to be made, more companies enter the market.

The GKs are not really designed as a powered cab and the Bergantino and ISP seemed positioned as high-value, low-sales-volume products. None of them ever made scale in the market, either as individual products or as a category of products.

Sweetwater has a Bass Vector 210 for about $800. Not sure if the Theta Bass and bigger Bass Vectors are still available. Sweetwater has bunch of other powered ISP Vector cabs available, including subs, but they are intended for guitar, rather than bass. Also some are special order.

Ultimately I think few bassists are willing to consider the preamp/power amp path. Most would rather have an integrated pre/power solution. Most of the great bass preamps are rack-based. Racks tend to be big and heavy.

If you want powered cabs, it's not too hard to select PA cabs that will do a fine job. For best results you probably want a 2-cab solution with a sub and mid/high cab.

 

[micguy]

There are two kinds of bassists at this point (this has to cover more than 90 percent of us):

1) Those that are traditionalists - I like my rig, why you messsin' with it? - these folks aren't in the market for powered cabs - what they want, they have.

2) Those of us that play ampless gigs. The folks that want something different (they might have been your market at one point) don't want a cabinet at all at this point.

 

[Reedt2000]

There are two kinds of bassists at this point (this has to cover more than 90 percent of us):

1) Those that are traditionalists - I like my rig, why you messsin' with it? - these folks aren't in the market for powered cabs - what they want, they have.

2) Those of us that play ampless gigs. The folks that want something different (they might have been your market at one point) don't want a cabinet at all at this point.

I'm in between those camps, I run a little Markbass combo which is loud enough on its own for small gigs but much of the time acts as a direct box feeding FOH and my IEMs (through a mixer aux send) with the amp volume really low cause the main act I play in is ampless

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

In GK's case, I think the whole proprietary thing was a mistake. A gamble on their part that didn't pay off. If they'd played like Android/PC instead of Mac/iPhone I think they could have sold a lot. But I'm not really an expert, nor do I have as many years checking out cabs and amps as a lot of y'all around here do.

I guess they were the guinea pigs, and the other companies saw them fail at this wrinkle in the industry, and passed on it.

Or maybe another company is planning a new approach to the same concept.

Without a "standard" aka something acceptable to everyone, this is a tough sell.
If my information regarding non-standard to pro line levels is correct, that certainly would have been a possible miscalculation. Though I think it was more on a VHS vs Betamax scale rather than a comparison of computer operating systems.

They may have had technical reasons that their Chain system was superior to the current pro, line level standards, but if they can't sell those advantages to the regular user, it doesn't much matter.

I think, especially in the current environment, the trend is to improve on established systems rather than put a lot of R&D into something new. Likewise, if you look at who is buying this stuff, you see a lot of people ingrained in tradition, for tradition's sake. Though we do see slow progress, it just isn't going to be anything radical.

The question: What's the best [insert whatever] for Metal, will only move the needle of that discussion incrementally.
Tubes vs SS. Analog vs Digital. P-bass vs everything else. We've been hashing out these things since day one. How far have we moved the mainstream from when those discussions began?

 

[dbsfgyd1]

...or maybe they did and I can't tell.
I'm a few years late to the powered cab party.
I got some GK gear and was psyched to use their powered cabs - but they're now discontinued and not easy to find.

Anyone have any ideas on why the whole powered cab thing didn't get popular?
Seems like a great idea to me. Preamp to cab and that's it.
Am I missing something?

‘Acoustic had one back in the day. It worked so well they stopped making them.

 

[gregunit]

...or maybe they did and I can't tell.
I'm a few years late to the powered cab party.
I got some GK gear and was psyched to use their powered cabs - but they're now discontinued and not easy to find.

Anyone have any ideas on why the whole powered cab thing didn't get popular?
Seems like a great idea to me. Preamp to cab and that's it.
Am I missing something?

If you can DI into a mixer, you can DI into a really good powered PA speaker. But now I use DI into headphones through my pedal, and DI into the house mixer or practice pa when I play out.

 

[HolmeBass]

I already own all of these integrated bass amplifiers.

Plus putting the two heaviest things in a box together never felt like a genius idea to me.

 

[gregunit]

There are two kinds of bassists at this point (this has to cover more than 90 percent of us):

1) Those that are traditionalists - I like my rig, why you messsin' with it? - these folks aren't in the market for powered cabs - what they want, they have.

2) Those of us that play ampless gigs. The folks that want something different (they might have been your market at one point) don't want a cabinet at all at this point.

Too much to carry. I can put my DI (Vox Stamplab IIB in my guitar case, plug in and I'm ready. No handtruck needed

 

[Altitude]

There are two kinds of bassists at this point (this has to cover more than 90 percent of us):

1) Those that are traditionalists - I like my rig, why you messsin' with it? - these folks aren't in the market for powered cabs - what they want, they have.

2) Those of us that play ampless gigs. The folks that want something different (they might have been your market at one point) don't want a cabinet at all at this point.

I agree. Powered cabinets are sort of a bomb in search of a war. Easy to understand what they do, but the benefits weren't clear enough or substantial enough to move category 1 players off of what they were doing.

Also, powered cabinets hit the market (the ones I remember) at about the same time weightless class D heads got popular. One of the benefits of a powered cab was ostensibly that you could reduce the size and weight of your rack, which became less of a benefit once your head weighed 4 pounds.