Why Didn't Powered Cabs Catch On?

[Jeremy Jones]

I have been trying to find a powered cab solution mostly because I am starting to do more and more amp less gigs and when I need an amp I want something that would not color my Pre-amp. I also want the flexibility to get many different sounds as I play many different types of music. Lastly I want something fairly simple to setup and transport. I have found this using a Headrush MX5 through either/both a Headrush 108 FRFR and a 112 FRFR. I also have a Trace Elliot transit B that I use in the same way as the MX5 depending how I feel and what the gig requires.

Edit:
I did not really answer the question..... I think we bass players for the most part like what we like and it is hard to change or look at something different from what works (P-bass anyone)... It took me a long time to come to the realization that this was the route that was going to give me everything i needed without having too much gear (At least in my wifes eyes LOL)

 

[Altitude]

I already own all of these integrated bass amplifiers.

Plus putting the two heaviest things in a box together never felt like a genius idea to me.

I sold two 1990s era Definitive technology 15" Powerfield subwoofers this week and had to load the damn things into the back of my truck. 90 pounds each. I agree with you.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I sold two 1990s era Definitive technology 15" Powerfield subwoofers this week and had to load the damn things into the back of my truck. 90 pounds each. I agree with you.

Fast forward 30 years and you could consider a Rumble 200 (1 x15") combo to be a powered cab. It weighs in at under 35 lbs.
I think most of the weight you're dealing with might be due to cabinet construction. But a non-class D amp will be heavier as well.

 

[Altitude]

Fast forward 30 years and you could consider a Rumble 200 (1 x15") combo to be a powered cab. It weighs in at under 35 lbs.
I think most of the weight you're dealing with might be due to cabinet construction. But a non-class D amp will be heavier as well.

...or consider a modern era SVS SB2000 powered sub, which is what is replacing the DTs. Vastly superior performance in every way and 34 pounds.

 

[N. Kentucky Bass]

Love my Phil Jones PB-300 and Noble tube preamp!

Edit: The most interesting discovery was adding a tiny TC Electronic Spark boost pedal just before the Noble. It allows saturation of the bass signal before entering the tube preamp. With that tiny powered cab, the rig sounds like a giant tube amp albeit doesn't push that much air. It's easy to underestimate the versatility of a small powered cab!

 

[micguy]

One of the benefits of a powered cab was ostensibly that you could reduce the size and weight of your rack, which became less of a benefit once your head weighed 4 pounds.

I took a relaxation course once, and the instructor told us how to take the weight off of our necks, saying "your head weighs 15 pounds". I asked how she knew. She hemmed and hawwed, and finally admitted she had sawed off a head and weighed it (the person wasn't using it anymore, but still....)

 

[darwin-bass]

And yet powered PA cabs are very popular.

 

[Altitude]

I took a relaxation course once, and the instructor told us how to take the weight off of our necks, saying "your head weighs 15 pounds". I asked how she knew. She hemmed and hawwed, and finally admitted she had sawed off a head and weighed it (the person wasn't using it anymore, but still....)

I admit I've wondered.

 

[trevcda]

Most players stick pedals in front of their combos and don't even think about the fact they've got 2 or more preamps (plus the one or sometimes two in their bass!).

Yeah and then wonder why their system hisses so badly!

 

[Blue Moose]

I get my tone from my fly rig and usually run into the effects return of my amp so I don't have dueling preamps. For that reason, I'd love to have a super-light powered cab...it would be perfect for my needs. But I do understand why the market for it would be fairly limited.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I admit I've wondered.

Ask the French.

 

[Reedt2000]

Yeah and then wonder why their system hisses so badly!

Yeah, I don't get it, I'm boosting 10k three times over... and I have this terrible hiss!

 

[mdogs]

I admit I've wondered.

Yes, for very different reasons. The idea of a powered bass speaker really holds not much interest, the speakers are close to the stage and don’t normally require longs speaker cable runs. Powered PA speakers on the other hand tend to be a great distance from the source.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Without a "standard" aka something acceptable to everyone, this is a tough sell.
If my information regarding non-standard to pro line levels is correct, that certainly would have been a possible miscalculation. Though I think it was more on a VHS vs Betamax scale rather than a comparison of computer operating systems.

They may have had technical reasons that their Chain system was superior to the current pro, line level standards, but if they can't sell those advantages to the regular user, it doesn't much matter.

I think, especially in the current environment, the trend is to improve on established systems rather than put a lot of R&D into something new. Likewise, if you look at who is buying this stuff, you see a lot of people ingrained in tradition, for tradition's sake. Though we do see slow progress, it just isn't going to be anything radical.

The question: What's the best [insert whatever] for Metal, will only move the needle of that discussion incrementally.
Tubes vs SS. Analog vs Digital. P-bass vs everything else. We've been hashing out these things since day one. How far have we moved the mainstream from when those discussions began?

Not too far, man.

 

[ProbablyTooLoud]

Love my Phil Jones PB-300 and Noble tube preamp!

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[micguy]

And yet powered PA cabs are very popular.

Pro Audio folks are far less tied to tradition. They have very different demands than musicians do.

 

[Old Garage-Bander]

I agree. Powered cabinets are sort of a bomb in search of a war. Easy to understand what they do, but the benefits weren't clear enough or substantial enough to move category 1 players off of what they were doing.

Also, powered cabinets hit the market (the ones I remember) at about the same time weightless class D heads got popular. One of the benefits of a powered cab was ostensibly that you could reduce the size and weight of your rack, which became less of a benefit once your head weighed 4 pounds.

Use a class D amp in the powered cab and you'll have to tie it down.

 

[Wasnex]

Yes, for very different reasons. The idea of a powered bass speaker really holds not much interest, the speakers are close to the stage and don’t normally require longs speaker cable runs. Powered PA speakers on the other hand tend to be a great distance from the source.

Each powered PA cabs requires power and a signal cable. Unpowered cabs only require speaker cables. So systems with powered cabs typically require more connections.

IMHO the biggest benefit of powered PA cabs is reduced weight and volume on a macro/system level. Amp racks in large systems tend to be big and heavy. Also I think the combined weight and volume of all mic and power cables can work out to be less than the combined weight and volume of all speaker cables. At least that is how it worked when we changed from traditional amps and cabs to powered cabs. To some extent the actual benefits will depend on how well you package the system.

We used a motion labs power distro, rather than running a bunch of extension cords. This is what the stage boxes looked like:
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So we had rather big and heavy power lines, that carried three phases off power from a centralized power distro that was tied into a disconnect. The idea is we could run one or two lines with break out boxes, instead of wasting time running a bunch of extension cords from wall outlets.

I was actually surprised by how much less work was required to transport, load, and set up the powered speaker system.

You don't necessarily get the same benefits from using one powered bass cab.

 

[Drzejzi]

I have a GK MB410 combo with a MBP410 powered cab and I really like this setup. I don't have to worry about the impedance and matching amp's power with cabinets' power.

The only downside is, as you said, compatibility. I'm not sure what I would do if the combo would break.

 

[Riff Ranger]

I agree that GK's proprietary approach is a force that limited the potential success of powered bass cabs. My understanding is they were essentially powered extension speakers intended for use with GK combo amps...thus not fully compatible with regular preamps. These were moderately priced.

Bergantino had powered cabs based on their HT line. I believe these had line level inputs. They were expensive.

The only other powered bass cabs I can think of is the ISP Bass Vector series. The ISP Bass Vector Pro and Beta Bass preamp received very good reviews. From what I remember they were pretty expensive, and also the cabs were large and heavy (scaled for arena type gigs). As you probably know the market is now focused almost exclusively on small and light.

I think a big reason why powered cabs have not caught on is they simply were never common enough to break through. In order for a new product to gain a footing in the market, it needs high enough sales to break over from losses into profitability. If there is money to be made, more companies enter the market.

The GKs are not really designed as a powered cab and the Bergantino and ISP seemed positioned as high-value, low-sales-volume products. None of them ever made scale in the market, either as individual products or as a category of products.

Sweetwater has a Bass Vector 210 for about $800. Not sure if the Theta Bass and bigger Bass Vectors are still available. Sweetwater has bunch of other powered ISP Vector cabs available, including subs, but they are intended for guitar, rather than bass. Also some are special order.

Ultimately I think few bassists are willing to consider the preamp/power amp path. Most would rather have an integrated pre/power solution. Most of the great bass preamps are rack-based. Racks tend to be big and heavy.

If you want powered cabs, it's not too hard to select PA cabs that will do a fine job. For best results you probably want a 2-cab solution with a sub and mid/high cab.

I will add Bag End to this list, similar to Bergantino in terms of not-cheap, not-light.

I wonder whether a pedalboard-friendly power amp might do better. I’ve seen 44-watt ones the size of a typical MXR enclosure. How much bigger would something 200, 300, or 500 watts have to be? Could it run on 9v? If I could get 300 watts from something the size of a wah or volume pedal and running on 9v, I think I’d go for it.