Why do I see less DI than mics at local shows?

[Mushroo]

The top priority is "the show must go on."

Putting a trusted DI first in the signal chain (between the bass and the amp) guarantees that the show can keep going, even if my amp dies, or my cabinet dies, or the 9v battery in my effect pedal dies.

Even if I was planning to mic the cabinet and use a 100% "wet" signal, I would still want that DI as a safety net.

This is one of the reasons good engineers like to use a stand-alone DI, as opposed to (or, in addition to) the DI from my amp.

 

[s0c9]

Me using a microphone has a certain sound. Just like every different DI has a certain sound.

Honestly, what is the big deal whether or not my sound comes from a mic or a box?

It's NOT!!
And that's the entire point behind what I've been trying to tell you.. it doesn't really matter. I'll take either feed, but given a "choice" I'd prefer a DI.

 

[tfer]

The top priority is "the show must go on."

Putting a trusted DI first in the signal chain (between the bass and the amp) guarantees that the show can keep going, even if my amp dies, or my cabinet dies, or the 9v battery in my effect pedal dies.

Even if I was planning to mic the cabinet and use a 100% "wet" signal, I would still want that DI as a safety net.

This is one of the reasons good engineers like to use a stand-alone DI, as opposed to (or, in addition to) the DI from my amp.

I don't use batteries in my effects chain. Everything is powered. I have boxes of batteries as backup if required. My basses use 9V batteries, but I have spares there as well (and I religiously change the batteries in my basses on the first of every month - the old ones find their way into the kids toys). I have 2 LH500 amps in case something happens to the first one.

I believe in the old military axiom: 2 is 1, and 1 is none.

If by some act of God, all this wasn't enough, the last pedal in my chain is a Hartke VXL Bass Attack, with a DI out because yes, the show must go on...

 

[tfer]

It's NOT!!
And that's the entire point behind what I've been trying to tell you.. it doesn't really matter. I'll take either feed, but given a "choice" I'd prefer a DI.

I'm not the one making a big deal out of any of this...

But given the choice, you'll get a mic feed from me. And I've never once been asked to do otherwise.

 

[Scottkarch]

As a bassist and former professional live mix-operator, I always want a good DI to be on the bass between the instrument and the amp, because IMO, a good Di almost always sounds better than what you'll get out of the XLR output on the head. A good mic is fine to use in addition to capture the cab tone. Blend to what suits the gig.

How about saying a good head DI is almost always better than a cheap DI box? Or, a good DI box is equal to a good DI from a head. I know where you're coming from... but it would be easy for someone to construe what you said as "DI boxes are better than DIs on an amp." You know how people work around here.

I've only played TC Electronic amps, combo and heads since playing live again, and I've had sound guys either not say a thing, or say they like TC direct outs. They aren't particularly expensive so I'd lump them into midrange/average. It is better than my el cheapo backup direct box I keep in my bag... That being said, I'd say it's smart to be prepared for anything to fail.. or as many things as you can afford to have backup for.

 

[Scottkarch]

I don't see many bands, but have helped out a few town festivals etc and in my experience I've seen 0 miked basses. All DI from the head. No separate DI boxes either. I know they are used, but it's interesting I've never seen any locally.

 

[s0c9]

I'm not the one making a big deal out of any of this...

errr, but YOU ARE the one making a big deal out of it. Just read your own posts...
The "I refuse to compromise on my tone" approach, listing off cabs you use, "lazy sound men", "There is no DI in the world that sounds as good as a well made cabinet", "I'm a stubborn S.O.B.!" and so on... all to justify using a mic vs a DI..

 

[tfer]

I used the 'lazy soundman' in response to "the average house guy (I know) could care less about it". As I've stated previously, I have never had a soundman even hand me a DI.

And I am a stubborn SOB - after playing live for almost 30 years, I believe that if it isn't broke, don't fix it.

I also believe that if we were ever to work together, we could have a great debate over a couple of beers. Trying to get too indepth over the internet pretty much sucks...

 

[s0c9]

I also believe that if we were ever to work together, we could have a great debate over a couple of beers. Trying to get too indepth over the internet pretty much sucks...

 

[Mushroo]

I don't use batteries in my effects chain. Everything is powered. I have boxes of batteries as backup if required. My basses use 9V batteries, but I have spares there as well (and I religiously change the batteries in my basses on the first of every month - the old ones find their way into the kids toys). I have 2 LH500 amps in case something happens to the first one.

I believe in the old military axiom: 2 is 1, and 1 is none.

If by some act of God, all this wasn't enough, the last pedal in my chain is a Hartke VXL Bass Attack, with a DI out because yes, the show must go on...

Yes but those are all YOUR fail-safes and redundancies, that you provide, control, maintain, and vouch for. You want to be 100% in control of the situation, and I totally get that, but sometimes certain people find that attitude threatening or aggressive.

Some of the engineers I have worked with, like to have at least 1 fail-safe or redundancy of their own, that they can fully control. This way they can reassure their employer (the venue) that they have done their "2 is 1, and 1 is none" due diligence, by providing redundancy for the bass player's rig (in all its splendor and complexity) and the show can go on.

When an engineer hands me a DI and says, "why don't you plug your bass straight into there, and then take this pass-through to your rig," I smile, because I know, that they know what they are doing.

 

[4Mal]

life is too short for cheap DI's... Radial Pro' are my passives and Countryman Type 85's are my low end actives... and I do vastly prefer mine to the one in an amp head. for your protection and mine... one thing I do not want to experience is inadvertantly passing 48 volts to the DI on an amp to find out that the on board DI can't deal... yes, thst would be a mistake and yes mistakes happen...

I also don't want a stage hand to be dinking around on the back of an amp in between bands, on potentially dark stages try to figure out which switch does pre and in which position ... so.. If we are using a DI, it will probably be mine.

 

[carl h.]

When an engineer hands me a DI and says, "why don't you plug your bass straight into there, and then take this pass-through to your rig," I smile, because I know, that they know what they are doing.

I guess you like not hearing your effects unit through a PA.

 

[Gravedigger Dav]

Wait, why would I assume there's a DI too?

Wouldn't people normally go to mic as a result of not having DI?

Obviously I'm still super wet behind the ears...

At live shows these days I've seen pretty much every instrument microphoned.

Last night saw a bassist on a tc electronics 15+tweeter can attached to a tc electronics head (with DI) that head the floor mic against the cabinet .

Dunno bout the other bands, looked like old combo amps mostly. All micd in.

It isn't uncommon for the sound man to both mic and DI a bass. He will then blend the two signals to get a good sound.

 

[Humbled]

A good DI will not only provide redundancy in case of an amp-failure, it will reproduce lows that a cab/mic combination simply will not. It will get you "rumble" when you want it. If Cab-Tone is critical to the sound, a good mic is fine to use in addition. My fear is that a lot of people are so enamored with the idea of the awesomeness of their "cab-tone", they'll demand "a mic" and thereby be given a crap solution in place of a better solution.

Also, I say a "good DI" meaning: Countryman Type 85 or JDI for instance are great examples of quality all-purpose DIs that a pro sound mic "show-pack" is going to leave the shop with at least a six or eight of. There are others (BSS AR-133 for instance), but 85's and JDI's are very popular for pro-production use.

Also also: There are a lot of very popular cheap DIs being sold in huge numbers that just sound awful, especially with single-coil passive pickups.

Edit to add: If you're playing Metal or Guitar Rock in a bar, chances are everyone's already hearing too much of your "Cab Tone" from the stage as it is, and you could probably benefit from a little "rumble"

 

[Mushroo]

I guess you like not hearing your effects unit through a PA.

9 out of 10 local/bar gigs I go to, I'd say it is a vast improvement when the bass player's crappy effects unit does not come through the PA mains. The soundman is doing me, the critical-listening audience member, a huge favor by taking a "dry" DI.

At the pro level, obviously it is a different situation.

 

[4Mal]

you can alway put the DI at the end of the effects chain...

My effects live in the loop of a Radial BassBone. I take the DI from there. If I'm also providing backline, unless a guy brings his own effects folks typically just jack into my bassbone and use the mute and tuner there.

if we are in communication ahead of the gig I typically don't see a rig from half the bass players at a small festival. Many of them are happy to not move theirs and if they know they'll have decent monitoring. Second time around, the guy that brought his rig last year probably leaves it in the truck ... a little communication and trust building goes a long way...

 

[jimfist]

...now this thread...as predicted. LOL. Love it!

 

[Downunderwonder]

Yes but those are all YOUR fail-safes and redundancies, that you provide, control, maintain, and vouch for. You want to be 100% in control of the situation, and I totally get that, but sometimes certain people find that attitude threatening or aggressive.

Some of the engineers I have worked with, like to have at least 1 fail-safe or redundancy of their own, that they can fully control. This way they can reassure their employer (the venue) that they have done their "2 is 1, and 1 is none" due diligence, by providing redundancy for the bass player's rig (in all its splendor and complexity) and the show can go on.

When an engineer hands me a DI and says, "why don't you plug your bass straight into there, and then take this pass-through to your rig," I smile, because I know, that they know what they are doing.

Now, you mention that "no sound engineer has EVER asked me to use a DI." That suggest to me one of two hypothetical possibilities: 1) You are not working with experienced pros with the right gear, or 2) You are micro-managing from the stage and have bullied or intimidated sound men into working "without a safety net" because of your strongly-held beliefs.

and the guitars all go through DI boxes before the amps "for a safety net" too. Yeah right.

Bass is problematic because room PA's don't get tuned and bass players play too loud with too much low end. If you don't do those things your mic will work fine. It's not your fault if the room blooms low mush.

 

[carl h.]

9 out of 10 local/bar gigs I go to, I'd say it is a vast improvement when the bass player's crappy effects unit does not come through the PA mains. The soundman is doing me, the critical-listening audience member, a huge favor by taking a "dry" DI.

At the pro level, obviously it is a different situation.

By this logic, I'd leave the PA off and lock the doors.

 

[LiquidMidnight]

My experience running sound is that micing the bass cabinet is not the huge headache that some sound guys would have you think. Honestly, if done right, it's only slightly little more work than getting a quality DI signal. In a really bad room or impossibly small stage, I'd most likely opt for a DI, but in most rooms, micing is not the esoteric art that it's made out to be. Often, it does require a little bit more thought than micing a guitar cab, particularly with a two-way bass cab. Some people will just mic a woofer, but honestly, so many two-way bass amps don't have full-range woofers and actually cross-over the high-mids into their horns. You need to catch a little bit of those frequencies from the horn. It's not too hard if you have a supercardoid or hypercardoid mic, which most mics used for bass applications are. You just have to think a little more about how you're going to angle the mic.

I have a really good relationship with most of the sound engineers I work with, and none of them have ever blinked when I wanted to use a mic. Then again, they know that I'm not some wanker who's going to try and push a bunch of sub bass and scooped mids that they're going to somehow try and turn into magic at the desk.

Most ideal situation would be a mic + DI, but you do have to watch for phasing issues with that.