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Why do I see less DI than mics at local shows?

Hey forum-lurkers,

I'm a huge noobie when It comes to understanding live sound. So this may be pure ignorance...

I've noticed that almost all of the guitarists/bassists around here don't use DI on heads or DI boxes.

Almost all of them mic it in.

I can't imagine it being for aesthetic purposes.

Care to explain?

Thanks in advance,

Mic
 
OLD soundguy's who haven't entered the 21st century or barring FOH, musicians with same issue ??

I haven't mic'ed my bass (or guitar) rig in yrs.. .ALL DI'd !!
No-one has complained.. most SR guys love it.

When I do SR (and mix FOH), I will mic or DI - depending on what the musician asks for.
Given a choice, I will DI.

Why DI? 'cus DI's tend to be more stable and makes my job easier. It's not subject to the tonal/volume changes by the musicians, who [on average] are constantly "tweaking" their stage sound at a gig. This obviously impacts the mic'ed tone going to FOH.
DI, also helps maintain consistent monitor levels - be that wedge or IEM.

If you've ever used IEM's with a mic'ed guitar player.. you all know what happens when they kick in that boost pedal!
 
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Depends on the venue but if there is a mic on the bass cab, there is probably also a di..
Wait, why would I assume there's a DI too?

Wouldn't people normally go to mic as a result of not having DI?

Obviously I'm still super wet behind the ears...

At live shows these days I've seen pretty much every instrument microphoned.

Last night saw a bassist on a tc electronics 15+tweeter can attached to a tc electronics head (with DI) that head the floor mic against the cabinet .

Dunno bout the other bands, looked like old combo amps mostly. All micd in.
 
pretty much sc09 nailed it... Though I do tend to mic guitar amps. They aren't as fussy to get right in a room, frequency response wise. Bass can do a lot of damage... To a mix anyway... If I mic a bass amp, there will also be a dry di in case the bassist decides to muck about to the point where it becomes problematic tone during his set.

As far as old combo amps go... Eden Metro, B15, SWR red head.. It's a pretty short list of those worth mic'ing. Anyway...
 
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When I was starting out a group I was in did a battle of the bands scam, 8-10 bands a night type thing.
Everything was rushed, but they actually did both, for insurance basically. If one wasn't working for whatever reason, they could fix it on the fly without going on stage.
Since then I think I've been mic'd once, and that was a DB gig, which I found odd.
 
Hey forum-lurkers,

I'm a huge noobie when It comes to understanding live sound. So this may be pure ignorance...

I've noticed that almost all of the guitarists/bassists around here don't use DI on heads or DI boxes.

Almost all of them mic it in.

I can't imagine it being for aesthetic purposes.

Care to explain?

Thanks in advance,

Mic
One of two (opposite) reasons.
Guys who care and really know what they're doing will generaly mic guitars and occasionally bass (that's harder to find with most sound guys).
Guys who don't care or don't really know what they're doing will mic everything because they don't know the advantages of DIing, especially bass in most situations, unless you're really good with mic placement, eq and mixing.
It can totally be for aesthetic reasons - if you mean visual aesthetic as some guys like the "rock-star" look of mics and booms in front of the cabs.
 
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pretty much sc09 nailed it... Though I do tend to mic guitar amps.
Same here.. assuming: :thumbsup:
1. the amp doesn't have a direct out
2. the guitar player is NOT using a modeler (L6, Kemper, Fractal, others..). Most have DI capability.
3. the musician requests it..
 
Yeah, this will devolve into another mic vs. DI thread at some point, with the same pro/con arguments made for either side that have been made already many times on this forum.

Generally, my feeling on mic'ing a bass amp for live use depends on the performance environment first and foremost. If you're gigging the local "bucket of blood" bars that attract droves of drunks, and that don't even consider stage and acoustics, then I'd advocate for a DI by itself since you may never be able to appreciate what a mic can do for the sound of the bass. Just a realistic and practical matter.

Where the venue allows the FOH mixer to take advantage of mic or mic+DI, then certainly that is the best option. This generally only exists at the higher levels of professional performance, or in those instances where you are actually able to perform at a proper venue that puts the stage and sound FIRST due to the fact that they are taking great care to accommodate the listening audience (and they DO care about the sound). It also assumes a FOH mixer who knows what the heck he/she is doing.

To say that a pure DI method can "never" capture what a mic delivers is quite untrue IMHO. I'm a broken record on this count, but to achieve a mic'd tone from a pure DI source involves the proper digital capture of the tonal footprint of that cabinet via Impulse Response (IR) technology. The beauty of the IR is that it uses a mic, or multiple mics (both near and far field), to capture the sound of the speaker cabinet AS PROCESSED by whatever microphones, EQs and Preamps you desire.

Thus, if you close mic a bass cabinet (in a studio) with a MD421, and set up a Neumann U87 condenser a few inches (or feet) away (according to your taste), and run that through a beautiful sounding vintage or boutique mic pre, then a properly captured digital cabinet impulse (IR) of this signal path can be used as the source for your direct feed in a live performance environment via hardware that utilizes IRs. In essence, it is the bass cabinet/speaker + mic(s) + quality preamp, all of studio quality and using tried and true studio techniques, that you can take with you and use anywhere, provided you have the digital playback hardware allowing you to use cabinet IRs as the source of your speaker emulation (Fractal Audio AxeFx, Atomic Amplifire, Line 6 Helix, 2 Notes Torpedo, etc.). This opens up sonic possibilities and alternatives that are generally not affordable or practical in a live performance situation.

...so there it is...

The more sophisticated hardware that utilizes IRs also take things a step further by adding tube power amp emulation. Whether this actually makes a significant difference in the final result is a matter of splitting hairs IMHO, especially in a loud venue at the FOH mix position. For most players, taking a DI feed off of your bass head (preamp), into the IR processor, and then onto the FOH console, will get you pretty much everything you need for a mic'd tone via DI.

The use of multiple captured sources (IOW, different IR captures of different speaker cabinets) also allows you to drastically vary the tone of your "virtual" bass rig (cabinet) so that you're not locked into just one sound of one bass rig. This can be very handy for gigs requiring tonal variation, or those who perform in many different formats of music (blues/R&B/rock/pop/metal).

Guitarists have been taking advantage of this technology for years now (and at very highest pro levels of live performance). If you're a bassist who truly wants a pro alternative to live mic'ing your bass rig, then IR tech is the way to go.

JMHO, FWIW, yadda yadda yadda...
 
So if my amp has a DI, should I get a mic for it anyway so I don't blow out a venues PA due to lack of knowledge? (Until better acquainted with using DI)
I would say no... no need to get a mic. DI should be fine.
You are not going to blow out a venues PA with a DI.. unless you have a dummy at the board.
 
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WADTW: We Always Do This Way......is why.
Line 6, Kemper, laptops, & other systems allow a ton more flexibity IMO and the FOH has less worries about feedback, etc.
Last time a mic was used in front of an amp for JC was in 1989.

Studio?
Different story. Sometimes it's nice to put a small amp in a soundproof closet, turn it up to 11 or 12, and run a hot bass through it AND mix it with DI.
 
Soundmen who give a damn about bass rig tone. Guitars are always mic'd.
Exactly.

The number of bassists who spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars to get the sound that they hear in their heads - the sound that is 'theirs', but then plug into a DI so that they don't inconvenience a sound man is stunning.

If I was going to use my gear simply as a nice quiet onstage monitor, I'd own a 50 watt combo.

I mic the cabinet. I even have my own mics and stands to do it.
 
Guitars are always mic'd.

...except when they...aren't. Certainly most guitarists are putting a mic in front of their amp, but there is an ever growing minority of guitarists who are using full amp and cabinet modeling as the basis for their tones. And some of them are found on the biggest of the big stages. Since the advent of the Palmer speaker emulator stuff (widely used), more and more players are using speaker emulators of some kind.

Using a mic is easy, tried and true, and requires very little thinking generally (SM57 cap edge of speaker 1" off grill cloth). But it's also a one-trick pony. Many guitarists like the flexibility of being able to have a number of excellent sounding "virtual" guitar rigs at their disposal, for whatever reason, and that would physically be costly, space consuming, and impractical for most applications.

It would be interesting to see where all this lands in another 10 years.

FWIW.
 
The number of bassists who spend literally THOUSANDS of dollars to get the sound that they hear in their heads - the sound that is 'theirs', but then plug into a DI so that they don't inconvenience a sound man is stunning.

Is the sound they hear in their head the sound of the speaker being mic'd from 1" away? Serious question.
 
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I don't mic 1" away.

My mic is 6" away and pointed at my 15" Hydrive speaker, approximately 1/3 of the way between the cone and the edge, favoring the edge.

I'm wireless, so I'm standing with the soundman as we are experimenting. It takes about 5 minutes to get it right.

And it sounds a lot more like my cabinet than some DI ever could.
 

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