Why do strings die?

[SunnBass]

New strings. Strings installed by the factory.

roundwound.

But are they really "new"? New to you and fresh are two different things entirely.
If they're the strings that came with/on the bass there is no telling how long they've been on there.
And like @JimmyM said, there is no telling what bulk/low cost (cheap) strings the factory uses on their instruments.
To me, factory installed strings are just place holders and are meant to be replaced immediately.

 

[chadds]

Which brings us to the question of reincarnation, which probably requires a whole different thread.

Or "String Theory."

 

[TTA]

But are they really "new"? New to you and fresh are two different things entirely.
If they're the strings that came with/on the bass there is no telling how long they've been on there.
And like @JimmyM said, there is no telling what bulk/low cost (cheap) strings the factory uses on their instruments.
To me, factory installed strings are just place holders and are meant to be replaced immediately.

Maybe they are vintage strings. I should sell them in reverb for a “vintage mojo” premium. “Contains the dead skin and small organisms that feed on that dead skin”

 

[Kukulkan61]

Why do i feel like people who play flats are a cult? Just not my musical style.

This forum is a Cult..

 

[TTA]

This forum is a Cult..

But the flats players are the ones who wear the black hoods with dark lines under their eyes who look like they need more sun and less time with the dark master of evil.

 

[bigdaddybass12]

I used to use a VERY SMALL amount 3-1 oil or WD40 on a cloth and wipe the strings after playing. To me that extended the life. Plus made bass easier to play.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

I think it's just a crappy set of strings. Depending on the bass' cost, you often get what are called "shop strings," which are very cheap strings that the makers sell in bulk, and I've never heard a set of shop strings that were worth a crap.

Frankly, I’ve never head of “Shop Strings”. Are they advertised as such prior to sale or do you find out after the fact that’s what your got?. Dern, you learn something new everyday. Thanks

 

[TTA]

Frankly, I’ve never head of “Shop Strings”. Are they advertised as such prior to sale or do you find out after the fact that’s what your got?. Dern, you learn something new everyday. Thanks

My bass is a dingwall and i am 100% willing to bet they are the dingwall brand strings. Dingwall was happy to send me a replacement… as was the vendor. So i am getting a new set of dingwall strings (all of their strings are custom ghs i believe).

 

[JimmyM]

Frankly, I’ve never head of “Shop Strings”. Are they advertised as such prior to sale or do you find out after the fact that’s what your got?. Dern, you learn something new everyday. Thanks

I think it's a term I came up with to denote the very lowest quality strings that are bought in bulk and used at shops that make very cheap guitars and basses. But basically they're garbage IMHO, with cheap metals and low output.

My bass is a dingwall and i am 100% willing to bet they are the dingwall brand strings. Dingwall was happy to send me a replacement… as was the vendor. So i am getting a new set of dingwall strings (all of their strings are custom ghs i believe).

So you knew all the time what strings they were and just didn't feel like telling anyone what they or the bass is until now? Dude...

 

[spatters]

There are two different questions being asked and answered here.

OP's question is "What causes a new string to be dead right out of the envelope, or on a new bass?"

The answer to this is almost always "The wrap is not perfectly tight around the core, leading to a loss of energy when plucked...a loss that is most obvious at higher frequencies."

(Ideally, a string is a solid mass of exactly uniform thickness that is also perfectly flexible. If the mass isn't solid -- if any part of it can move or rattle -- the vibrating string loses energy to itself, instead of just to the air and the bass, and the string sounds "dead".)

It is most common for the low B and low E strings to be dead right out of the package, because they usually have three layers of wrap wire around the core. The A and D strings usually have two wraps, and the G string usually has only one. (Guitar strings have either one or zero wraps.) The more wrap layers there are, the more opportunities for one of them to be loose or come loose, resulting in a dead string.

Wrap wires can come loose either because they weren't perfectly wound at the factory (e.g. uneven tension or uneven feed), because the bass was strung up improperly (e.g. failing to crimp the end of round-core strings), or because the bridge has too high a break angle and the wraps can't cope with the bend.

Again, the more wraps, the more likely these are to happen...which is why, if a string is dead out of the package, it's almost always the low B or low E.

The second question is "What causes otherwise good strings to die over time?"

That's mostly just oil and sweat and dead skin and crap getting stuck in the windings and damping the high frequencies. (This is also why boiling old strings improves their tone.) But there is also potentially some degree of fatigue and deterioration over time, which can manifest itself as wrap wires no longer being perfectly solidly attached to the core or each other, or by breaking entirely, usually at the break over the bridge saddle.

 

[micguy]

Wound strings need space between the windings to vibrate freely - the point of wound strings is that the string is not solid. If a string is wound so that the windings touch, then you have a dead string out of the pack. I've had a few dead B strings recently - from a couple manufacturers. Other manufacturers, I've had absolutely no problems. Guess who's getting my future business?

Dead strings (over time) go dead because the windings get "connected" with gunk from fingers, etc. - the gunk bridges those little gaps. Reviving strings with boiling or a solvent bath works because you dissolve/wash away that gunk, so the windings are no longer connected to each other.

 

[AboutSweetSue]

It’s the circle of life.

 

[spatters]

Wound strings need space between the windings to vibrate freely - the point of wound strings is that the string is not solid.

You are correct that the purpose of windings around the core is because large solid-core metal strings wouldn't be flexible enough. (This is why U-basses can have gigantic solid-core strings but regular basses can't.)

However, I seem to recall saying, in bold print no less, "The wrap is not perfectly tight around the core..." If the wrap is tight to the core, regardless of how densely the wrap wire is wound around the core, the string behaves as a solid (yet flexible) mass, or close enough that algorithms like Karplus-Strong simulate it very well.

(We can all hear this model start to fall apart with very thick strings like the low B, where the bending resistance is sufficiently far from the perfectly flexible ideal string to cause audible inharmonicity.)

 

[TTA]

So you knew all the time what strings they were and just didn't feel like telling anyone what they or the bass is until now? Dude...

how is it relevant to the original post? I wanted to know what causes strings to die. It was a general question. I left out brands on purpose so people would not get in a pissing match or “i use xxx and never had an issue…”

 

[TTA]

There are two different questions being asked and answered here.

OP's question is "What causes a new string to be dead right out of the envelope, or on a new bass?"

The answer to this is almost always "The wrap is not perfectly tight around the core, leading to a loss of energy when plucked...a loss that is most obvious at higher frequencies."

(Ideally, a string is a solid mass of exactly uniform thickness that is also perfectly flexible. If the mass isn't solid -- if any part of it can move or rattle -- the vibrating string loses energy to itself, instead of just to the air and the bass, and the string sounds "dead".)

It is most common for the low B and low E strings to be dead right out of the package, because they usually have three layers of wrap wire around the core. The A and D strings usually have two wraps, and the G string usually has only one. (Guitar strings have either one or zero wraps.) The more wrap layers there are, the more opportunities for one of them to be loose or come loose, resulting in a dead string.

Wrap wires can come loose either because they weren't perfectly wound at the factory (e.g. uneven tension or uneven feed), because the bass was strung up improperly (e.g. failing to crimp the end of round-core strings), or because the bridge has too high a break angle and the wraps can't cope with the bend.

Again, the more wraps, the more likely these are to happen...which is why, if a string is dead out of the package, it's almost always the low B or low E.

The second question is "What causes otherwise good strings to die over time?"

That's mostly just oil and sweat and dead skin and crap getting stuck in the windings and damping the high frequencies. (This is also why boiling old strings improves their tone.) But there is also potentially some degree of fatigue and deterioration over time, which can manifest itself as wrap wires no longer being perfectly solidly attached to the core or each other, or by breaking entirely, usually at the break over the bridge saddle.

Great response and thanks! The increased wraps concept makes a lot of sense.

 

[JimmyM]

how is it relevant to the original post? I wanted to know what causes strings to die. It was a general question. I left out brands on purpose so people would not get in a pissing match or “i use xxx and never had an issue…”

It's very relevant to your situation because you only had one dead string on a new bass. Anyone can have a bad string on occasion, but you'd expect a Dingwall to have good strings on it as opposed to a cheaper brand of bass that uses those cheapo bulk strings that usually suck.

 

[TTA]

It's very relevant to your situation because you only had one dead string on a new bass. Anyone can have a bad string on occasion, but you'd expect a Dingwall to have good strings on it as opposed to a cheaper brand of bass that uses those cheapo bulk strings that usually suck.

your reply is exactly why i chose not to say that info originally. It could be any bass/string. My question would still be the same.

“Anyone can have a bad string on occasion.” As you said.

If i said i had a new alembic with a dead e string would that change any answer? A fender?

No… it would not, it would only distract from the original questions, and likely invite tribalism.

 

[klyph]

The winding process happens under tension, which can produce fatigue, even at the low amounts used in musical string manufacture. The fact that more strings aren’t DOA, or break within weeks of installation, is a true blessing. Steel is funny stuff- not as uniform or predictable as many people tend to think…especially once you try to get a “good deal” from your suppliers.

 

[micguy]

You are correct that the purpose of windings around the core is because large solid-core metal strings wouldn't be flexible enough. (This is why U-basses can have gigantic solid-core strings but regular basses can't.)

However, I seem to recall saying, in bold print no less, "The wrap is not perfectly tight around the core..." If the wrap is tight to the core, regardless of how densely the wrap wire is wound around the core, the string behaves as a solid (yet flexible) mass, or close enough that algorithms like Karplus-Strong simulate it very well.

(We can all hear this model start to fall apart with very thick strings like the low B, where the bending resistance is sufficiently far from the perfectly flexible ideal string to cause audible inharmonicity.)

The "bending resistance" (stiffness) is what causes the inharmonicity - the string becomes a dispersive medium if it's stiff (a thick solid string being the worst case). Dispersive means the velocity of wave propagation depends on frequency, which means...the overtones are not multiples of the fundamental frequency - things sound out of tune. The windings need to be tight enough that things don't rattle. The gaps between windings are fundamental to the string being flexible - if you bridge those gaps, the string is pretty much a solid (not flexible) string.

 

[GIBrat51]

Why do i feel like people who play flats are a cult? Just not my musical style.

Nah, we're not a cult. We're just... right...