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why do we lock to the kick drum?

#221
Samatza said:
That’s why the sentence starts with “I think” . It’s my opinion which could be right or wrong.
Ask your drummer to play any rhythm but omit the snare and you’ll see what I mean.
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And that's why mine starts with "either can". You think the snare is more important. I don't... I think that it can be.

I've had drummers omit the snare. I don't see what you mean, as some sort of absolute. Some rhythms have no snare.
 
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#222
Brad Johnson said:
And that's why mine starts with "either can". You think the snare is more important. I don't... I think that it can be.

I've had drummers omit the snare. I don't see what you mean, as some sort of absolute. Some rhythms have no snare.
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Frankly I think we’re in violent agreement here. Of course there are no absolutes, it depends what you’re playing.
 
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#223
Samatza said:
Frankly I think we’re in violent agreement here. Of course there are no absolutes, it depends what you’re playing.
Click to expand...

That's all I was saying. There are several absolutes being stated in this thread, as if there's only a handful of music genres and styles. I don't think that there's even a clear meaning of locking in with the kick. IME it isn't an absolute either, meaning that you ONLY play with the kick. But look at how many seem to take it that way.

It would be beyond interesting to hear all of these mindsets in actual performance. I'd bet that would be an eye opener.
:D
 
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#224
“Locking in” with the drummer

"WITH THE KICK, NOT WITH THE KICK—Most pop tunes require that the bass and kick drum are playing in sync to create a full, cohesive and powerful sound.
However, there are two schools of approaches that bassists and drummers subscribe to:
1) playing with the kick (bass) drum
2) playing off of it and around it (not necessarily playing in unison with every kick)

You should be aware of this concept and try experimenting where to place those unison notes together. Listen to the masters for how they approach this subtle yet powerful ingredient. Again, the composition will usually dictate what is needed and where to place those strategic notes and accents..."


Another interesting article.

"Here are the two most common misconceptions pertaining to locking in.

1.) The bass player should follow the drummer. Meanwhile, the drummer can play whatever he or she likes and vice versa.
2.) Locking in means that the bass drum and bass need to be playing the exact same rhythm from bar to bar..." from here:


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#228
equill said:
It's for a rhythmic reason, not an acoustic one.
In rock music, the kick drum is usually what the drummer's rhythm is based around. In jazz, it's often the ride cymbal.

White folk need something real simple and obvious to tell us where the beat is, and it doesn't get much more simple and obvious than the kick :)
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Playing with the kick has an acoustic benefit. It can make both have more dynamic impact.
 
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#229
jj.833 said:
Hi,
I was wondering for the acoustical or physical reason the bass often plays the same rhythm as the kick drum. Is it because the kick, as well as the bass, sounds lowest? Or to support the impact of the kick, which is often hard to be heard clearly?
What are your thoughts?
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I tend to think of it like I am adding the harmonic value to the beat. Yes, drums are tuned to certain notes but that note does not cut through the mix without the bass to link it directly to the harmonic structure of the song. You don't need to strike a note on the bass with every hit on the kick drum. Sometimes it is more effective to either not play with every beat or to alter how long you sustain the note that you do play on different beats. in this way, the groove takes on a life beyond just the key and time signature and gives the bass its own space in the arrangement. Its a matter of deciding on the feel that you want the tune to have. Bass and drums impact the feel of the tune far more that any of melodic instruments.
 
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#230
The drums and bass are the foundation of the band in a rhythmic sense. They set the tempo and mood. The bass is tone while the drums are attack (typically). Your frequencies compliment the guitar because it is an octave or more lower, while you sympathize with the kik drum because many times you are in the same frequency range. It is all about what sounds pleasing to the ear.

It isnt always the case though. There are many bands that have the bass as the dominant instrument rather than guitar or piano. I play the part that needs to be filled....tastefully.
 
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#231
jj.833 said:
Hi,
I was wondering for the acoustical or physical reason the bass often plays the same rhythm as the kick drum. Is it because the kick, as well as the bass, sounds lowest? Or to support the impact of the kick, which is often hard to be heard clearly?
What are your thoughts?
Click to expand...

I rarely ever play the same rhythm as the kick drum. We play similar rhythms, not identical. The drums are a rhythmic instrument primarily, the bass is a harmonic instrument primarily. They complement each other.
 
#232
Seashore said:
I almost never intentionally play only to the kick pattern. Our drummer doesn't play the same patterns all the time anyway so it wouldn't be much use to try. It falls out that I line up with the kick frequently in the overall groove, but the groove is what matters. I often wind up essentially playing "the riff", either along with the guitar or underneath it while it's doing something else.
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Would that be like Phil Lesh? I've noticed that he seldom follows the drummers, more often either underlaying/complementary to the guitars or in counterpoint to them. Seldom exactly following drums OR guitars, but always the same underlying melody, unlike say free form improvisational jazz. Sorry I don't have the understanding and vocabulary to phrase it better, but it's a very nice effect IMO.
 
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#235
Mike Whitfield said:
Would that be like Phil Lesh? I've noticed that he seldom follows the drummers, more often either underlaying/complementary to the guitars or in counterpoint to them. Seldom exactly following drums OR guitars, but always the same underlying melody, unlike say free form improvisational jazz. Sorry I don't have the understanding and vocabulary to phrase it better, but it's a very nice effect IMO.
Click to expand...

Phil plays a lot of ornamental notes "stuff" but always remains within a given rhythmic pattern with those specific accents.

 
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#237
Whousedtoplay said:
Phil plays a lot of ornamental notes "stuff" but always remains within a given rhythmic pattern with those specific accents.

Click to expand...

The wheel is turning and you can't slow down,
You can't let go and you can't hold on,
You can't go back and you can't stand still,
If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will.
source.gif

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Couldn't you try just a little bit more?
Won't you try just a little bit harder,
Couldn't you try just a little bit more?


Love It! :)
 
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