1. Please take 30 seconds to register your free account to remove most ads, post topics, make friends, earn reward points at our store, and more!  

why do we lock to the kick drum?

Discussion in 'Technique [BG]' started by jj.833, Sep 12, 2019.


Tags:
  1. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    And that's why mine starts with "either can". You think the snare is more important. I don't... I think that it can be.

    I've had drummers omit the snare. I don't see what you mean, as some sort of absolute. Some rhythms have no snare.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
  2. Samatza

    Samatza

    Apr 15, 2019
    Frankly I think we’re in violent agreement here. Of course there are no absolutes, it depends what you’re playing.
     
  3. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    That's all I was saying. There are several absolutes being stated in this thread, as if there's only a handful of music genres and styles. I don't think that there's even a clear meaning of locking in with the kick. IME it isn't an absolute either, meaning that you ONLY play with the kick. But look at how many seem to take it that way.

    It would be beyond interesting to hear all of these mindsets in actual performance. I'd bet that would be an eye opener.
    :D
     
    Whousedtoplay likes this.
  4. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    “Locking in” with the drummer

    "WITH THE KICK, NOT WITH THE KICK—Most pop tunes require that the bass and kick drum are playing in sync to create a full, cohesive and powerful sound.
    However, there are two schools of approaches that bassists and drummers subscribe to:
    1) playing with the kick (bass) drum
    2) playing off of it and around it (not necessarily playing in unison with every kick)

    You should be aware of this concept and try experimenting where to place those unison notes together. Listen to the masters for how they approach this subtle yet powerful ingredient. Again, the composition will usually dictate what is needed and where to place those strategic notes and accents..."


    Another interesting article.

    "Here are the two most common misconceptions pertaining to locking in.

    1.) The bass player should follow the drummer. Meanwhile, the drummer can play whatever he or she likes and vice versa.
    2.) Locking in means that the bass drum and bass need to be playing the exact same rhythm from bar to bar..." from here:


    Rhythm Section Essentials Workshop: “Locking in” with Bass and Drums
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2019
    Ekulati, MonetBass and DJ Bebop like this.
  5. joebar

    joebar

    Jan 10, 2010
    Locking in with the kick is great... unless the kick pattern is lame.
    One thing I’ve learned is that many drummers don’t know how to play the kick with taste and space.
     
    Whousedtoplay and DJ Bebop like this.
  6. :)
     
    Whousedtoplay likes this.
  7. bass4worship

    bass4worship Ready For Freddy, let rock Supporting Member

    May 4, 2009
    Sebring, Florida
    Locking in with the bass drum can make you sound like a bad azz bass player!
     
    DJ Bebop likes this.
  8. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    Playing with the kick has an acoustic benefit. It can make both have more dynamic impact.
     
    DJ Bebop and Whousedtoplay like this.
  9. Greg Sullivan

    Greg Sullivan

    Feb 21, 2011
    Philly
    I tend to think of it like I am adding the harmonic value to the beat. Yes, drums are tuned to certain notes but that note does not cut through the mix without the bass to link it directly to the harmonic structure of the song. You don't need to strike a note on the bass with every hit on the kick drum. Sometimes it is more effective to either not play with every beat or to alter how long you sustain the note that you do play on different beats. in this way, the groove takes on a life beyond just the key and time signature and gives the bass its own space in the arrangement. Its a matter of deciding on the feel that you want the tune to have. Bass and drums impact the feel of the tune far more that any of melodic instruments.
     
    DJ Bebop and bass4worship like this.
  10. armelind

    armelind

    Feb 6, 2012
    The drums and bass are the foundation of the band in a rhythmic sense. They set the tempo and mood. The bass is tone while the drums are attack (typically). Your frequencies compliment the guitar because it is an octave or more lower, while you sympathize with the kik drum because many times you are in the same frequency range. It is all about what sounds pleasing to the ear.

    It isnt always the case though. There are many bands that have the bass as the dominant instrument rather than guitar or piano. I play the part that needs to be filled....tastefully.
     
    DJ Bebop and Whousedtoplay like this.
  11. amper

    amper

    Dec 4, 2002
    US
    I rarely ever play the same rhythm as the kick drum. We play similar rhythms, not identical. The drums are a rhythmic instrument primarily, the bass is a harmonic instrument primarily. They complement each other.
     
  12. Mike Whitfield

    Mike Whitfield

    Apr 10, 2019
    Would that be like Phil Lesh? I've noticed that he seldom follows the drummers, more often either underlaying/complementary to the guitars or in counterpoint to them. Seldom exactly following drums OR guitars, but always the same underlying melody, unlike say free form improvisational jazz. Sorry I don't have the understanding and vocabulary to phrase it better, but it's a very nice effect IMO.
     
    DJ Bebop likes this.
  13. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    (Just saying...)

    The Role of the Bass | Basics | StudyBass

    "The Responsibilities of the Bass Player
    Traditionally, the bass performs two basic and vital functions within a band or group:

    Bass provides the rhythmic foundation.
    Bass provides the harmonic foundation."


    I would add the third dimension to the rhythmic/harmonic foundation - the bass line as a second melody(counterpoint)!
     
    DJ Bebop likes this.
  14. JimmyM

    JimmyM Supporting Member

    Apr 11, 2005
    Apopka, FL
    Endorsing: Ampeg Amps, EMG Pickups
    It can, and ignoring it can also have that same impact.
     
    DJ Bebop likes this.
  15. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    Phil plays a lot of ornamental notes "stuff" but always remains within a given rhythmic pattern with those specific accents.

     
    DJ Bebop likes this.
  16. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    It's all about the rhythmic pattern that could be rendered by playing various kinds of instruments, vocals, etc...
    Accents (like stapled pieces of paper) makes a band tighter.
    Talking about a rhythmic pattern as some groove. It must "breathe" - inhale, exhale, louder, softer, etc...
     
    JimmyM and DJ Bebop like this.
  17. The wheel is turning and you can't slow down,
    You can't let go and you can't hold on,
    You can't go back and you can't stand still,
    If the thunder don't get you then the lightning will.
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    Couldn't you try just a little bit more?
    Won't you try just a little bit harder,
    Couldn't you try just a little bit more?


    Love It! :)
     
  18. Whousedtoplay

    Whousedtoplay

    May 18, 2013
    TEXAS
    WOW, so picturesque! :drool:
     
    DJ Bebop likes this.
  19. Old man

    Old man

    Mar 11, 2013
    Anderson, SC
    Nada
    Not sure what skin pigmentation has to do with this question. ???
     
  20. Brad Johnson

    Brad Johnson Supporting Member

    Mar 8, 2000
    Gaithersburg, Md
    DR Strings
    By acoustic benefit I meant that the two together could be acoustically stronger.
     
    JimmyM likes this.

Share This Page

  1. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register.
    By continuing to use this site, you are consenting to our use of cookies.