Enjoy the benefits of a premium membership!
Upgrade Account
-
TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
Join free Log in
Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.
ummm ....your ( our) job as bass players is to play in time and in tune, to lay out the form in a way that FEELS GOOD. FEELING GOOD is the only criteria by which we brethren of the bass are judged.
If you aren't making music on the first beat of a phrase because you don't KNOW THE SONG, try not to play it off as an artistic choice. It is a device we have to use to cover our ass sometimes. The drummer is there on the downbeat..he is doing his job, you do yours. Go look at the Jamerson transcription book and let me know how many "phrases" don't play the root on the downbeat (or anticipating the first beat ) in some shape or form.
If you aren't making music on the first beat of a phrase because you don't KNOW THE SONG, try not to play it off as an artistic choice. It is a device we have to use to cover our ass sometimes. The drummer is there on the downbeat..he is doing his job, you do yours. Go look at the Jamerson transcription book and let me know how many "phrases" don't play the root on the downbeat (or anticipating the first beat ) in some shape or form.
Either can be the defining part of the song... so why would the other be more important?
The need to oversimplify this in this thread is a trip. Edicts are laid down when in fact the overriding truth still is...
it depends.
Just curious...
If he's locked with you or you're locked with him, other than semantics, what's the difference? Meaning how would a listener know who was locked with who?
One of you would have to play something predictable for the other to lock on.
Playing a root on the downbeat can work... it can also be boring and predictable. Instead I'd play the song at hand. Better than any of these "rules".
Kicks rarely if ever confuse me. If you can listen to a static beat and in the next pass have no idea what's coming, I think that is a special kind of issue.
I regularly play without rehearsal onstage with musicians I just met. I listen. To EVERYTHING. Not listening to the kick just seems odd. What else would I ignore?
I know for a fact that it is me locking in with our drummer because :-
a) He is half deaf.
b) He recently admitted that he had been listening to the rehearsal recordings and had noticed it.
I pointed out that as well as locking in with his kick I also left a gap in some songs for his snare. This came as a complete surprise to him. (He has only been gigging since 1964 and was pro for 7 years.)
Fortunately he is a pretty dependable drummer so I have no problem locking in with him.
Or a special kind of drummer.
Finding a drummer with inconsistent feet and steady hands would indeed be special.
Boring and predictable is the gig. If it doesn't suit you, play the guitar...Playing a root on the downbeat can work... it can also be boring and predictable. Instead I'd play the song at hand. Better than any of these "rules".
I guess you are right, it's just semantics. It just feels/works better for me if I'm thinking that he locks with me. Or rather, not thinking of having to lock with him. Often it just happens naturaly. Yes we often play predictably, and I don't know if a listener could tell who was locked with who.
I spoke with my drummer about this and he said that it wasn't my job to lock with him. It was his job to lock with me. He told me that he watches my feet as an indicator of time and feel (I move around a lot). I feel that often he is following me insteasd of the other way around. It's not a big deal, we just try to make good music and have fun.
The drummer in my band and I had a discussion on this yesterday since we were recording a song where I intentionally didn't follow his bass drum because I thought it sounded better not to. He told me that he used to tour with Bobby Caldwell ("What You Won't Do For Love" was his big hit), and Bobby insisted on the bass and bass drum being joined at the hip on every song. I guess it worked for him.
Last edited:
You seem to be obtusely ignoring what I am saying. Maybe I haven’t said it well. Maybe you have some sort of weird axe to grind with me. I don’t know.
I listen to whole kit. Like you. I just don’t try to play the kick pattern in an un-rehearsed setting unless it feels like that is what is needed and it’s regular and fairly easy to track. I would rather play something I feel strongly and comfortably than worry about being right on top of the kick.
When I hear advice for beginners to “lock with the kick” I feel that can be misconstrued and that it’s just not that simple. And that always doing that is sometimes counterproductive.
"Well maybe not you, but if I am consciously trying to follow the kick as my primary focus on the kit, I wind up late, sort of guessing my way through a tune".
I love it when people attack the reader for their poorly worded thoughts. I'm obtuse but maybe you didn't word it well.
But I'm not allowed to call you obtuse. Bye.
Last edited:
And ultimately that's the point for many of us... make music and try to have fun.
In my case it's a mutual thing when we do it... identify what's going on and build on that.
Some in this thread seem to think that locking in with the drummer means only playing what they play. It doesn't.
well if somebody is looking for a cat with a coffee table for bass ...the gig is yours for sure, not mine.Can't say I'm surprised.
It might be your gig, it sure as heck isn't mine.
Unless your name is Anthony Jackson, nobody wants to hear that crap.
