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Why do we still deal with 60 cycle hum?

Well, that went well... never said 50 wouldn't kill you.But 60 can cause you to not let go....

Confusion often arises from electric shock hazards, where direct contact with sufficient 60 Hz current (e.g., from faulty wiring) can cause tetanic muscle contraction—making muscles "lock up" because 50–60 Hz matches the natural firing rate of human motor nerves (around 40–80 Hz for sustained contraction). But this requires milliamp-level current through your body, not ambient fields.

To name just one famous counter-example, Keith Relf of the Yardbirds, who died of electrocution in his house in Houndslow, London (50 Hz, 240 V electrical line).

Details of the Incident:
  • Cause: Relf was playing a guitar connected to a faulty amplifier that was not properly grounded, making the guitar's metalwork live.
  • Accident Details: While standing on a gas pipe in his basement, he touched the guitar, causing the current to flow through him.
  • Discovery: He was found by his 8-year-old son, still holding the guitar.

Back in the day, I grabbed a mic plugged into a PA while I was holding my guitar's neck at least a few times. Both the PA and the guitar amp had two-prong non-polarized plugs. Recoiled immediately from the shock each time. 60 Hz, 120 V.

By the way, note that both of the number ranges that you specified include both 50 and 60 Hz: "50–60 Hz matches the natural firing rate of human motor nerves (around 40–80 Hz for sustained contraction)."
 
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Well, that went well... never said 50 wouldn't kill you.But 60 can cause you to not let go....

Confusion often arises from electric shock hazards, where direct contact with sufficient 60 Hz current (e.g., from faulty wiring) can cause tetanic muscle contraction—making muscles "lock up" because 50–60 Hz matches the natural firing rate of human motor nerves (around 40–80 Hz for sustained contraction). But this requires milliamp-level current through your body, not ambient fields.
First you said 50 Hz wouldn't kill you:
And don't forget, 60 cycles will kill you, 50 cycles won't.
Now you deny that. Then you said:
60hz stops the heart. 50hz does not
Now you're ignoring that and claiming something wildly unrelated. You keep doubling down without even trying to develop your argument.

Are you copying and pasting from AI? Because if you are, stop. You are spreading bad and harmful information.
 
You are spreading bad and harmful information.

^^^ This.

Making wildly inaccurate statements regarding electrical safety is very dangerous. What if someone actually believed this guidance and received a shock as a result? Bad advice is one thing. Bad advice about electrical safety can be deadly. If you don't know what you're talking about, please do not chime in with snippets of "wisdom."
 
Hum still exists because of a few things:

1) Transmitting electrical power works much better with AC than it does with DC. You can use lower or higher frequencies, but lower frequencies need huge transformers to minimize losses, and higher frequencies, while they can work, don't work for transmitting power for long distances. Airplanes use 400 Hz (the whine you hear in a plane sometimes is 400Hz and multiples of that, which is much easier to hear than 60 Hz). They do that to save weight - transformers for 400 Hz are much lighter than those for 60 Hz. The ISS when it launched used 20kHz for power distribution, which provided even more weight reduction. (They now use DC, and dc/dc converters) for distribution.

In addition, things we make radiate fields at other frequencies - CRT's used to be a big issue, now your LED monitor is cleaner, but still not all that clean. So, a device that gets rid of 60 Hz and it's harmonics....isn't going to be good enough in all cases.

There are two ways that hum/buzz gets into your instrument's signal:

1) Magnetic fields - power lines and power transformers radiate magnetic fields - really, anything where current is flowing makes magnetic fields.

2) Electrostatic fields - high voltages on things gives you fields that can interfere.

The fixes for those two things are different. Shielding works for electrostatic fields (condenser mics are a real problem if not very well shielded), but it doesn't do anything for magnetic fields. No matter how well your Jazz bass with single coils is shielded, it will hum if you solo a pickup in the presence of a magnetic field.

To fix magnetic hum, you need hum cancelling pickups. Hum cancelling works by having two coils, which product opposite polarity hum signals, and when combined, the hum goes away. But there's a catch here. For hum cancelling to work, the magnetic field at both coils has to be identical. In a lot of cases, where the source isn't too near the instrument, that assumption holds true enough that your bass can be silent, but it doesn't ALWAYS work. A P bass is inherently a bit quieter than a Jazz bass for electromagnetic hum, because the pickup halves are closer to each other - in a strong magnetic field, the fields at both coils are more similar, the closer the coils are to each other. For Christmas services, the churches I play at have a tendency to put Christmas trees on stage - sometimes with the lights on dimmers. That produces magnetic fields that are pretty chaotic - if you are anywhere near a tree (they put them all over the stage, so that's kind of a given), even a bass or guitar with hum cancelling pickups that's normally silent will often hum.

One interesting nitpicky thing: P basses are generally pretty quiet, but there are a few details that can bite you:

1) Orientation of coils: If you slant the pickup halves so that they are not in one plane (often done to manage string balance), the magnetic hum cancellation is compromised somewhat - as they are not pointing the same direction, the fields that the two coils see are not the same. If you hear a little magnetic hum on a P, this may be why.

2) Electrostatic fields: A P puts the coils in series. One of them has one side that is grounded, the other does not. This can contribute to electrostatic hum. If you wire the coils in parallel (you have to capacitively load the pickup to regain the sound you want) it helps in certain situations.

3) Electrostatic shielding - it's a good idea to shield a P pickup, and it's also a very good idea to ground the magnets/pole pieces (this applies to a Jazz as well) - a grounded piece of copper tape with conductive adhesive across the back of the pickup can provide that grounding. Some pickups now do this as a matter of course, but all the old Fender designs are ungrounded, which is something that Leo missed (he didn't get everything right).

If you do all of these things, you might be surprised at how much quieter your P bass is in certain places.
Thats a lotta knowledge right there. Thank you for that.
 
My great aunt, born Circa 1906, had one of those Edison players, with the big decorative horn. She still had two or three of the old wax cylinders, like listening to a scratchy ghost from another world, the rest had broken or disintegrated over time, but that may still make them more durable than MP3’s, or any of our precious digital data. We had my grandfather’s old 78 rpm player, and a bunch of Bakelite records. I’m ashamed to admit we broke most of them using them as frisbees, probably some priceless musical artifacts destroyed.
 
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My great aunt, born Circa 1906, had one of those Edison players, with the big decorative horn. She still had two or three of the old wax cylinders, like listening to a scratchy ghost from another world, the rest had broken or disintegrated over time, but that may still make them more durable than MP3’s, or any of our precious digital data. We had my grandfather’s old 78 rpm player, and a bunch of Bakelite records. I’m ashamed to admit we broke most of them using them as frisbees, probably some priceless musical artifacts destroyed.
I was in a thrift store looking at records. I picked up a vinyl one. The sleeve ripped, the record fell out and shattered. Bakelite was pretty crappy, but I don't know how much better vinyl is.
 
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Well, that went well... never said 50 wouldn't kill you.But 60 can cause you to not let go....

Confusion often arises from electric shock hazards, where direct contact with sufficient 60 Hz current (e.g., from faulty wiring) can cause tetanic muscle contraction—making muscles "lock up" because 50–60 Hz matches the natural firing rate of human motor nerves (around 40–80 Hz for sustained contraction). But this requires milliamp-level current through your body, not ambient fields.
Again more disinformation. You are just full of it.
 
There's YouTube channel that does pickup demos so well that you can reasonably compare the slight differences.

When comparing Fralin Jazz pickups, I noticed that, tonally, the difference between the standard Jazz and the hum-cancelling Split Jazz was virtually the same as difference between the standard Jazz and the +5% overwound Jazz.

So if noiseless adds the same thing that overwinding by 5% adds, does that mean that the -5% underwound would cancel out the hum-cancelling Split?

ie is this true: Jazz + Split - 5% underwound = Jazz (but now hum-free) ?

When I try to search for someone with a -5% underwound Fralin Split Jazz, all get is myself asking this question in 2025 lolll
 
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Can’t speak for everyone, but I kinda like a little 60hz buzz… to me, it’s the sound of anticipation. Whenever I hear it, I can’t help but think “something loud (and cool) is about to happen!” :cool:

Exhibit A (and I know this is all fake movie noise, not 60hz hum, but it illustrates the point):
 
Lots of misinformation in this thread.

First, current flow kills; NOT voltage or frequency. The latter factors certainly can affect the former. But, the most dangerous current flow will result from DC bias, NOT 50 Hz vs 60 Hz. That is why, as just one example, your car battery is far more dangerous than your AC receptacle.

Second, the predominant causes of AC hum in single coils on performance stages were originally from high intensity metal halogen lighting and Neon signage. Both have generally gone the way of dinosaurs; being replaced by LED improvements, which are far more efficient and produce near zero RF projection. Single coils are generally much safer on today’s stages.

Third, Alembic demonstrated an active onboard system for eliminating hum while retaining single coil frequency response in 1972. Just a few days ago. So, the tech has been around for a while. But, we kind of are less urgent about it these days.

Carry on.
 
Can’t speak for everyone, but I kinda like a little 60hz buzz… to me, it’s the sound of anticipation. Whenever I hear it, I can’t help but think “something loud (and cool) is about to happen!” :cool:

Exhibit A (and I know this is all fake movie noise, not 60hz hum, but it illustrates the point):

One of the interesting details about that scene in "Back to the Future" is that, every time Marty turns a knob, the volume AND the FREQUENCY of the hum go up - it adds tension, but of course, is horribly innacurate.
 
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DC voltage potentials drive much more current through you, when you complete the circuit.
No they don't, not at the typical 12V battery level. The human body's impedance is too high for there to be the 15mA or so needed to cause cardiac issues. I'm an EE and have worked in enough fields with gear that can kill you that 120VDC / 50VAC is potentially enough to kill you and where specific measures need to be applied to prevent it.