Why do we still use amps?

[David Jayne]

I play in MANY DIFFERENT situations. Different venues. Different bands. Great sound guy. No sound guy. Awful sound guy. Killer PA. Meh PA. No PA. Monitors (?). I HAVE TO bring an amp. But it's usually pretty small and always very loud if need be. I gotta hear me and so does the band. And sometimes the only way the crowd will is through my rig alone, at the smaller places. I wish it were different but it ain't.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Well, than you're one of the lucky ones who are fortunate enough to play gigs that pay enough to rent a trailer for your bands' gear
Tours are massively expensive for underground bands and you have to think twice about every extra item you take with you.

I carry all of this and myself and fiance (lead singer) in a Kia soul.

 

[Thumpin6string]

Because they sound good. If everything goes through the PA, why do the amp manufacturers keep making higher and higher wattage amps? I don't think you need 1000+ watts for a monitor unless your hearing is gone.

 

[willsellout]

Didn't read the thread. Don't care. I like buying stuff and having stuff. So yeah that's why.

 

[rylie]

why use an amp?
100% control of my sound
and not depend on someone FOH who may have less than a year experience

 

[_Some Dude]

Do you guys see no amp becoming the standard?

Nope.

I feel like small/medium amp mic’d has def overtaken carrying stacks. I rarely see newer bands hauling huge amplifiers; it’s all smaller stuff that gets mic’d.
It’s more practical, a small light and powerful head with a decent lightweight cab is enough for smaller rooms/gigs that don’t have a PA. Then at bigger gigs most of the time the venues are gonna have a PA

My indie scene was the opposite. 410s were typical, 410+115 was popular. Saw the odd 610 or 810. I was the odd man out with a small neo 210/115 setup. The only young dudes with small rigs were the complete noobs trying to gig a practice amp.

It’s interesting because DJs and electronic acts are overtaking live music. I feel like a lot of what holds back live bands is having like 7 dudes, each with a ridiculous amount of gear. It makes it too hard travel and get places. I think a lot of the younger generation who realize this are adapting and making more streamlined/minimalist rigs that let them do their thing wherever they go.

I think a lot of what holds live music back is unentertaining performers, unprofessional musicians and crappy vocalists.

DJs are cheap, the music is more or less guaranteed to sound CD quality, and no one gets tired of listening to the same guy sing for three hours.

 

[_Some Dude]

Yeah, in all of my gigs there has always been a bass amp in the venue. My point was: it doesn't make much sense (in rock / metal) for a guy like me to invest money in a decent bass rig, if the sound guy uses only the DI of the amp and doesn't mike the cab anyway.

I think you’d be surprised at how much of your stage sound is mixed with the FOH, particularly small/medium sized venues where the PA is meant more for reinforcement and not production.

You can usually tell when there’s an empty bubble at the front of the stage and the crowd is standing 20 feet back so they can hear the PA.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

Genuinely curious, what type of places are you guys referring to?

Pretty much every place (that’s actually a music venue) I go to has a PA and someone at the mixer. Not sure how they would survive without one.

Edit: I also wanna point out that I’m not saying don’t carry an amp. Just that I feel like from my experience most places are equipped to handle a no amp situation in case of an emergency, even if it’s not the most ideal scenario in terms of sound. I think as technology keeps getting cheaper and better we could see this becoming more of a norm.

Very Very few gigs supply a reasonable PA, much less monitors that are functional in the areas that I've played in California. Sure larger places/ venues do, but the average bar? Nope.
Even the ones with PA seldom have a sound engineer, hence I own the pa pa run sound from the stage.
I could drag a sub with me but that's bigger than my amp!
The drummer is going digital and he's going to be responsible for the sub in the future. Typical venue that we play, many are smaller. I provide the PA.

 

[David Jayne]

I carry all of this and myself and fiance (lead singer) in a Kia soul.
View attachment 3602829

I'm going out on a limb here, but first: well done and second: I'm guessing the two of

You don't have to give up all control. I certainly don't. But there really isn't much you can do in that situation except grin and bear it.

'Beer' it? It's that kind of gig, I think. I'd bring my PJ Cub. And my own beer. They'd never know.

 

[Nevada Pete]

OP's question is I think rhetorical, but this I believe is one potential answer:

“If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.” ― Louis Armstrong.

Playing on a live stage through live amps is / was a thrilling experience for many performing artists. From what I read / hear, it is an entirely different experience from playing on an IEM stage.

So one answer might be that some musicians who are used to playing out with real instrument amplifiers have reported here on TB that the newer IEM systems feel like they isolate the performers (all band members, not just the bass player) from the audience, and from the sound of the instruments on stage and of the room itself. So even though the IEM mix may be technically perfect, to these musicians it reportedly seems sterile by compassion. This obviously does not take into account the problems encountered when band members don't know how to balance their individual volume levels. Or, don't want to. How many bands actually mike up their cabs now? There was a time when nobody miked up their cabs.

So here's something to put it into perspective. Monitors? We don't need no stinking monitors! Back in the day (I know, ancient history, but still...) we did three part harmonies with no monitors in front of Fender Dual Showman amps, Sunn's, Marshall's or Super Beatles sometimes cranked for everything they were worth. Yes, it absolutely can be done. So I'm probably not the person to ask. I really just wanted to say kids today have it too easy!

 

[Bboopbennie]

Hey... to juice up the rest of the band of course.

 

[David Jayne]

OP's question is I think rhetorical, but this I believe is one potential answer:

“If you have to ask what jazz is, you'll never know.” ― Louis Armstrong.

Playing on a live stage through live amps is / was a thrilling experience for many performing artists. From what I read / hear, it is an entirely different experience from playing on an IEM stage.

So one answer might be that some musicians who are used to playing out with real instrument amplifiers have reported here on TB that the newer IEM systems feel like they isolate the performers (all band members, not just the bass player) from the audience, and from the sound of the instruments on stage and of the room itself. So even though the IEM mix may be technically perfect, to these musicians it reportedly seems sterile by compassion. This obviously does not take into account the problems encountered when band members don't know how to balance their individual volume levels. Or, don't want to. How many bands actually mike up their cabs now? There was a time when nobody miked up their cabs.

So here's something to put it into perspective. Monitors? We don't need no stinking monitors! Back in the day (I know, ancient history, but still...) we did three part harmonies with no monitors in front of Fender Dual Showman amps, Sunn's, Marshall's or Super Beatles sometimes cranked for everything they were worth. Yes, it absolutely can be done. So I'm probably not the person to ask. I really just wanted to say kids today have it too easy!

I'd generally agree with the spirit of your post here but, don't forget that back 'in the day' there were a LOT more places to play. There were 8 or 10 or more decent places to play between just Brookfield and Danbury CT in the 70's through early nineties. You could gig five or six nights a week LOCALLY for decent money if you worked it. Now? Literally ONE club remains in Danbury. OK sure, with the internet and technology anybody can put anything they want out there anytime to anyone that happens upon it. Sounds great but is it? Can you complete with the guy that got 100,000 hits in three days by vomiting on a campfire?

 

[Nevada Pete]

I'd generally agree with the spirit of your post here but, don't forget that back 'in the day' there were a LOT more places to play. There were 8 or 10 or more decent places to play between just Brookfield and Danbury CT in the 70's through early nineties. You could gig five or six nights a week LOCALLY for decent money if you worked it. Now? Literally ONE club remains in Danbury. OK sure, with the internet and technology anybody can put anything they want out there anytime to anyone that happens upon it. Sounds great but is it? Can you complete with the guy that got 100,000 hits in three days by vomiting on a campfire?

Hi,

Sounds like you might actually be replying to my message #85 in the, "Best and Worst Paying Bands", thread. But yeah, it's just a crying shame what's happened to live music. Between the competition from alternative newfangled entertainment media and the stricter blood alcohol level driving laws (which are probably a good thing), along with no doubt several other factors including aging baby boomers, the live music scene IEM's or not seems to have been wiped out compared to what it used to be. So in today's world, I totally agree it's just harder and harder to leverage anything between the various clubs and dance venues when there are hardly any venues like that left to begin with. You are spot on, there.

I wonder if maybe the new "Lift" and "Uber" ride services might spark some resurgence in people going out to party, drink and dance? One drawback of that idea would be that using these services, patrons can't visit the parking lot from time to time to do some #$%$# or #$%$# to augment the liquor. I am to understand that kind of thing did happen, although I don't know personally, of course. Because I was always in the band! I hear it's pretty easy to sneak a hit from one of those vape gizmo's, though. So there's that. Maybe live music will improve some even if the demographics aren't there to support a monster live music scene like it used to be.

BTW, I don't recall ever vomiting on a campfire (that doesn't mean I never did it!), but I did drink too much whiskey one night at 12,000 feet altitude (up on Pikes Peak the night before a sports car race). I didn't know the excessively high altitude would increase the effects of the alcohol I no doubt drank too much of, anyway. The result was I vomited on the floorboards in the back seat of my dads Ford Galaxy which definitely totally #$%$#ed him off. I got it all cleaned up, though. That was the hangover from hell, for sure!

 

[Nunovsky]

@74hc

 

[primusfan1989]

Any music bar or club i've been in has a PA system

Glad to hear thats your experience, however that is not the reality for most of us. Furthermore I personally can't stand IME, I need to have some air moving behind me

 

[funkymonk13]

Nope.



My indie scene was the opposite. 410s were typical, 410+115 was popular. Saw the odd 610 or 810. I was the odd man out with a small neo 210/115 setup. The only young dudes with small rigs were the complete noobs trying to gig a practice amp.



I think a lot of what holds live music back is unentertaining performers, unprofessional musicians and crappy vocalists.

DJs are cheap, the music is more or less guaranteed to sound CD quality, and no one gets tired of listening to the same guy sing for three hours.

lol fair enough but that’s always been the case with lots of people sucking anyway. I meant more that being a band, especially a big band with lots of gear, you’re more limited to the places you can go to. It doesn’t make sense financially. Having to rent a van big enough to haul a ton of gear gets expensive; even just being able to fit everything and everyone in a Prius is a win. If you can travel by air with your gear, that’s a whole other layer Of opportunity. I know a few DJs and electronic music artists who are able get gigs all over the World and build sustainable careers because they can easily get there and do their thing with very little equipment.

I know people are particular about their gear and the sound they want and of course that’s part of it. But being able to get out in front of people is huge, especially for emerging acts trying to make a name for themselves. All I’m saying is it’s dumb to be held back by the idea that you need that tube amp with 4x10s to sound good.

 

[Nevada Pete]

lol fair enough but that’s always been the case with lots of people sucking anyway. I meant more that being a band, especially a big band with lots of gear, you’re more limited to the places you can go to. It doesn’t make sense financially. Having to rent a van big enough to haul a ton of gear gets expensive; even just being able to fit everything and everyone in a Prius is a win. If you can travel by air with your gear, that’s a whole other layer Of opportunity. I know a few DJs and electronic music artists who are able get gigs all over the World and build sustainable careers because they can easily get there and do their thing with very little equipment.

I know people are particular about their gear and the sound they want and of course that’s part of it. But being able to get out in front of people is huge, especially for emerging acts trying to make a name for themselves. All I’m saying is it’s dumb to be held back by the idea that you need that tube amp with 4x10s to sound good.

I've heard some excellent ampless setups, but only at big shows where there's a sound company that knows what they're doing. The three or four times I've heard it done at a club style venue where the band used their own PA, it was inadequate because there was a dead spot in front of the stage extending back into the dance floor until the loudspeakers on sticks they put up on each side of the stage kicked in.

I think ampless can be done properly in a dance club venue such as when the sound is installed, for example. But it does require a more elaborate system than I've seen any band bring in themselves, and this cancels out to some extent (sometimes to a great extent) the ostensible advantages of going ampless.

I don't know what it's like now, but fly gigs were always back lined in ancient history.

 

[/\/\3phist0]

I'm going out on a limb here, but first: well done and second: I'm guessing the two of

@David Jayne
God my man, finish that cliff hanger, the "the two of..."

 

[EdO.]

why use an amp?
100% control of my sound
and not depend on someone FOH who may have less than a year experience

I feel that I have more control over my sound by sending a consistent present from my Helix Stomp as opposed to trying to tweak an amp for every different room, stage etc. It's the same exact sound every time. What happens to it out front is in the sound mans hands, I have minimal control of that and anyone else using a mic-ed amp or sending a direct out to the board had no more control than that either. You may have 100% control on stage, out front not really, and what you're hearing a few feet away from the amp is completely different 25 feet away. Agreed though, a good sound man really makes or breaks your overall sound. Mixing sound from the stage with a bunch of loud stage amps, drums, wedges etc can only be made to sound good if all band members have the discipline to do a full sound check and once set never touch a volume knob again. Good luck with that.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

Why do we still use basses? Keyboards don't need setup, don't need to be worn on a strap, & interface better with a PA channel.