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Why does it (bass) record different?

AudioDwebe

AudioDwebe

Guest
Dec 21, 2011
888
805
Pacific Northwest
#1
Bass played through cabinet equals one sound; bass recorded directly into recording equipment equals a different sound. Why is this?

I've recently recorded a bunch of different basses and they all sound a bit different than when played through a cabinet. I can write that off to the differences in the equipment.

But what surprised me is when I record a P bass with Chromes with tone turned off. Dull thud through any amp/cab combination. However, recorded, it sounds nothing like "live".

Is this the reason some folks record with a mic on a cabinet?
 
#2
AudioDwebe said:
Bass played through cabinet equals one sound; bass recorded directly into recording equipment equals a different sound. Why is this?

I've recently recorded a bunch of different basses and they all sound a bit different than when played through a cabinet. I can write that off to the differences in the equipment.

But what surprised me is when I record a P bass with Chromes with tone turned off. Dull thud through any amp/cab combination. However, recorded, it sounds nothing like "live".

Is this the reason some folks record with a mic on a cabinet?
Click to expand...
Both bass cabinets and microphones are anything but flat. They impart their own color into the bass's tone.
 
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#3
Well, one signal chain is this (at least):

Bass > Amplifier > Cabinet > Microphone > Microphone preamp

vs

Bass > DI > Microphone preamp

Some DI boxes be a sort of preamp and introduce some more features, but at their simplest it's just a transformer that changes the impedance of the signal coming out of the bass to be appropriate to go into a line or microphone level signal for the microphone preamp. So there's a lot more being added and changed in the "live" signal chain. No piece of gear has a truly flat frequency response and mostly they're not supposed to. There is gain, EQ and compression being added at a lot of stages in the signal chain, even if they're not being used for that specific purpose as an effect. Various levels of gain (overdrive, distortion, etc.) add dynamic compression and EQ curves, EQ curves add gain, compression effects perception of EQ and can add perceived distortion as well. There's a lot more variables in the mix with a longer signal chain.
 
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#5
Slough Feg Bass said:
use 2 signals, mix the two together!
take the full range of the mic'd cab to track1,
then put the DI through a high pass filter, dial out most of the upper end of things,
and mix to your heart's content.
I find that each bass has a sweet spot when dialing in the high pass filter that makes it sound very big. large even.
Click to expand...

A high pass filter will roll off the LOW frequencies. I think you meant a low pass filter.
 
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#6
Also remember that the rest of the stuff in the mix will at least partially mask those upper frequencies in the final product. Find some of the solo'd Jamerson tacks that are floating about. His sound has plenty of harmonic content, but once you add drums, vocals, guitars, keys, and percussion, the bit that comes through is the thud.
 
#7
A couple things I'd add. I do a lot of practicing through headphones late at night, I use a countryman into a small A&H board. I know what my basses sound like in a recording situation. I also have that mixer hooked up to studio monitors and a small PA system. The amps I tend to gravitate towards have a similar sound so there is not a big variance, by design. That being said the tone that works great on a recording doesn't always work best live and vice versa.

What you are hearing in the recording is likely closer to "flat" than your amp. If you have a tone that has your amp stamped onto it the best thing you can do is mic your cabinet. The other answer could be a different DI or preamp like a REDDI which is going to warm up your tone. Maybe even try throwing on a set of Labella deep talkin flats on the bass.

There are a lot of ways to skin this cat. What you are experiencing is not uncommon. Good luck
 
#8
Slough Feg Bass said:
use 2 signals, mix the two together!
take the full range of the mic'd cab to track1,
then put the DI through a high pass filter, dial out most of the upper end of things,
and mix to your heart's content.
I find that each bass has a sweet spot when dialing in the high pass filter that makes it sound very big. large even.
Click to expand...


I do this. Blend them together to find that sweet spot. I also run a rane dc24 as a dual band compressor and use that as my DI out to the preamp for my "clean" signal. I also have an eden Wtdi which I do not use as my DI, and also the amps DI, which I use to blend the two tracks together.. I've also mic'd the cab in the past, but I need a better mic to get the desired results I am looking for.
 
#9
Tracking through an amp and cab will generally smooth out the unwanted artifacts that you may hear recording with the same attack playing D/I.

I had to learn the hard way, while the clock was ticking on studio time, that your live sound may not translate well in the studio.
Your live bass settings may be too midrangy tracking D/I.

Round wound strings may sound killer through an SVT, but give you nothing but trouble going D/I.

The guys who perform live with IEMs may have an easier time keeping their attack smooth and even when tracking D/I.
 
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#12
N. Kentucky Bass said:
Quite often the sound of a DI type of flat is as attractive as some women look without makeup.
Click to expand...

Wow , you kind of nail my perception of women and bass in a single sentence.
Worth of a signature !!!!


I practiced hard all my life to have a good tone , direct , without amp coloration , as I like my GF as natural as possible.
I hate clowns…… :)
 
#13
My experience is that recorded bass sounds nothing like live bass, much in the way that drums sound completely different live than on a recording. The frequencies available to a recording are much smaller because of the speakers most people have and in general it will sound "flatter", meaning in a live situation there is a three dimensional space between the instruments that isn't really possible in a recording.
When I'm recording I have to completely change my mind about EQ vs live.
 
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#14
I think any player will benefit from learning to record D/I to help them smooth out their attack and better understand
how to control unwanted artifacts in the track like string & fret buzz and finger clack against the strings.
Try the track with fingers then with softer and harder picks. Note the differences.

Playing live there's crowd energy, trying to hear yourself across the stage, you generally have a tendency to play harder.
I used to beat the living snot out of my strings playing live and that just didn't translate well gong D/I.
 
#16
Sit right in front of your cab and play, then listen how different the sound is standing 10' feet or so away.

This might help you to understand why you will hear a difference close mic'd vs. using a condenser mic pulled back around 18" or more.
Sound moving through air generally smooths out the sound because air is not a complete void.
Air molecules combined with barometric pressure and humidity have enough structure to cause resistance.

You may not be able to see air movement, but sound does encounter some resistance as it moved through the air.
The throw of the speaker cone pushing air will also affect how sound moves through the air.
 
#17
ImageUploadedByTalkBass1412583882.323451.jpg
 
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#18
Note here, during the Beatles Rooftop concert, Neumann's were positioned roughly 18" off the grill.

While above shows close micing technique, when working with highly sensitive & expensive condenser mic's
it may be better to give them some space, so the air being pushed by the speaker cone doesn't overwork the diaphragm of the mic.

I've been using this method when recording with my condensers.

Invalid Link Removed

I had always wondered how Paul heard himself with a Bassman, until I realized he was using a Silver Face Bassman 100. He was also running D/I.

The only mic on his cab is the Neumann way forward in front of his vocal mic.
It looks like they were also using a small PA so some of the sound is coming off the PA speakers.
 
Last edited:
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#20
I've been thinking how you might be able to visualize the air movement in front of the speaker.
Also to the rear for open back guitar cabs.

When you see the throw of the speaker cone moving forward and backward, air in front and to the rear is moving in response.

I suppose you could see the air moving with something like the smoke guns they use tracking aerodynamics.
 

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