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Why does it seem so many players use 5th fret vs Open string?

#81
I had a bass teacher (upright, mind you) tell me two completely contradicting things over the course of my time with him:

"The longer the string, the more beautiful the note."

"Never use open strings."

:confused:

Of course, he also used to compare me to his other students in lessons. Despite being an amazing player, he was not the most wise person.

EDIT: The moral of the story is to trust your ears and your hands. Be your own player. There is no "right" answer to your question. Play in a way that's conducive to you and your body.
 
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#82
I used open notes when I need a big, loud ring. I have a brass nut and want to use it as much as possible. I tend to use 0 or 5 if they fall under 2 factors.

1. Does it sound better there?
2. Does it make it easier by playing it that way?
 
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#83
It depends on what works at the time.
I like to work the nut when playing in the keys of F, F#, Bb, C, and G. Any open string encountered is merely a passing note during runs and etc.
When working in the key of A, D, E, and Eb my preference is to work off the fifth fret and above. Playing in B can go either way.
To me it's all about the walking bass lines and chord change runs...and whatever is easiest to mute when I'm scootin' along at a fast pace.
Everyone has their preferences and no two are the same.

If I was playing stand up bass my preferences may well change.
 
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#85
Personally I use whatever is easiest for me. I doubt the tone difference is anything an audience member can detect at more than 5 feet away. It really bugs me when I see tabs written with 5th fret notes that could more easily be played using open strings.

If someone is really hung up on the tone difference, they could try a zero fret. All the open strings would then sound fretted.

Someone showed the bass line to Hysteria earlier in this thread. My Friend Of Misery by Metallica is another good one that would be about impossible without using open strings.
 
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#86
OP - first, there is no such thing as "cheating". If you can play something more easily a certain way, it's economy of motion. Secondly, I fell into this for the first couple years of playing - learn the entire fretboard. You *can* get by in first position, but your opportunities to make music open up greatly when you learn the entire fretboard. Open strings will sound brighter, but unless it's a note that's held, it probably won't stick out badly. Open notes or fretted notes both have their places. The only time I would actively avoid them is if I were playing fretless. Then the tonal differences are more pronounced.
 
#87
Open notes are friends. Why would you neglect 4 notes on your instrument?
They are useful for tonal reasons.. for ergonomic/stamina purposes.. for expressional purposes. Many reasons to not neglect them.
That is the first position you really learn ( open/half position)
So why is it so hard to implement into your playing? Likely because you do not practice it... and before you know it, it becomes a weakness.
Everybody hates to practice their weaknesses. It is laziness....learn one pattern, and move it around. Good enough.
 
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#88
bfields said:
One think I *think* nobody's mentioned: really repetitive basslines, even when they're not that hard, can be an endurance test. If I'm not thinking about it, I tend to get a lot of tension and eventually cramping and pain. I find it helps me relax if practice them in a variety of positions, and then shift between them a bit while I'm playing. Maybe that's just me.
Click to expand...

Good man! I subscribe to that philosophy myself. It's nearly impossible to overemphasize why it's so important to be familiar and comfortable playing anywhere on the neck.

It's less an issue today now that we have decent FOH PA systems. But back in the day of giant megawatt backlines you'd sometimes need to change your playing position on the fly if the acoustics in the room weren't being cooperative. It's largely an "old guy" lost art these days - and good riddance too! But it has contributed to the unfortunate (IMO) tendency of many players to put themselves in a "box" on the neck - and then stay there.

Sometimes you need to play something in a less efficient way to give it the best you can in sevice to the song. And sometimes, to your earlier point, you need to seek out efficiencies in order to avoid discomfort. Or even injuries.

As others say, muting can be a problem. And for some reason I don't always notice the problem when I'm playing, even if it sounds pretty ugly. So, watch that you aren't letting open strings ring longer than you meant to--maybe record yourself just to make sure.
Click to expand...

Also important. Like Mr. Lesh suggested, whatever you play, make sure you mean it. :thumbsup:
 
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#89
Everyone has a different opinion, so here's mine. It all depends on what you're playing and where the previous/next note is going to be. For some songs I prefer playing on the 5th fret because my fingers are already engaged and it can help with moving around. However, I would be lying if I said I did love the sound of an open E or A note with a pick (especially for punk or rock music). I rarely play the D and G open because it loses some punch, but like I said it all depends on your preference and where you're going to be placing your finger after the note. Also, open string notes help when you have an itch on your nose!
 
#92
Gilligan8 said:
played things like paranoid WAY up on the 12th fret of the E strings, because it had a "better" sound.
Click to expand...
It's my understanding that they messed with different tunings and playing in different spots on the neck to accommodate Tony's missing fingers. His workplace injury was still pretty fresh when they transitioned from Earth to Black Sabbath and the world of medical prosthetic 40 years ago wasn't very advanced, especially for a broke Brummie musician. The lighter tension of playing higher, or lower tension of playing a lower tuning was easier on his hands.

Back to the original question, I find it difficult to transition from lets say a G on the E string to an open A then back to a G on the E rather than just doing the whole step interval on the same string. The muting is tough and my brain just doesn't like it. For me it just really depends what comes before or after it, and I think it matters a little if the bassist uses a pick. Personally I think it is easier to hop back and forth like that in quick succession with a pick. That's just my opinion.
 
#95
Rip Van Dan said:
A few reasons fort that:

• one of which has already been mentioned and that is the timbre of the sound is different on the same note played in different positions on the neck. There was one song that I was playing where I moved up high on the E string to play part of it instead of moving over to the D string, which would have made it much more convenient to play. I asked the band members to listen to the difference and they said they couldn't tell any difference when we were all playing. So I went ahead and played it in a much more convenient fretting location instead of shifting my hand way up on the neck. We later did a recording and what I though sounded noticeably different playing my part by myself had no distinguishable difference in the recording of the entire group playing.

• The second thing I'd point out about using the 5th fret instead of the open string is it is much easier to mute than an open string. You can just release or ease the finger pressure instead of using using another finger in your fretting hand or using your plucking hand to mute the ringing open string. So muting is definitely a consideration.

• The third thing has been covered a few times already, and that's the ability to easily transpose up or down a half-step, full-step, or more. If you only learn to finger it with the open strings, then you can't move it out of the key that the open strings work in.
Click to expand...

Aha, many post in and finally...TIMBRE! Good on ya Rip Van Dan.:thumbsup:
 
#99
Well in my case the open string and the fifth fret are two completely different notes so my choice of which to use depends on which note I need to play!

But, ignoring that, I do tend to favor open strings. The music I play will often change keys and of course when that happens you do have to adjust your fingering to account for the fact that there is now no open string that is tuned to the note you need. Frequently that is not an issue but when it is I will generally switch my fingering to avoid the open string completely. And I will avoid open strings if they make fingerings more difficult on songs that don't change keys too. And sometimes I do prefer that sound of a fretted note at that point in a song so I will fret it. The conclusion is that I am not wedded to the use of open or fretted notes, I use the one that seems best for a given song. Often, and in my judgement which may differ from yours, the open string is the best choice, but not always.

As I was typing this my mind drifted back to a song I have played only twice and which had so many key changes that I found it difficult to master by playing near the nut as I often do. Now I am making a mental note to play that one up the neck a bit and avoid the open strings if I ever need to play it again. In this particular song the chord notation will call the same note by different names depending on the key where it occurs which might be musically correct but which is very poor from a human engineering standpoint. For example it calls a C a C in most cases but in one key it calls a C a B#! It would probably be much better to find a place on the neck where I could keep the same fingering pattern for every key and ignore the chord notations altogether except to define the key of the moment.
 

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