Why does the bass sound terrible??

[B String]

I work with a number of "house" sound people. There is one guy who always makes me a big low end blur. It's so much so that it effects what I hear in my "in ears". So much huge low end I can't escape it even using the in ears. Sometimes it just is what it is, and we just have to deal with it. (maybe)

 

[31HZ]

"Power alley" (it's not really an "alley") caused primarily by carelessly-deployed subs (i.e. left and right under the mains) is IME the most common cause, followed by failure to substantially HPF every signal except kick drum and bass guitar.

 

[Gearhead17]

In your opinion, without knowing any information.
I was just asking........you are telling. Big difference.

It really does not matter what could be seen on stage. NONE of us can truly pinpoint what might have gone wrong at this event based on the gear that could be seen. Sometimes, all we see on stage is a monitor for the player and behind that rig there are several floor processors, IR devices, and more all designed for the FOH tone only. You can't come to a conclusion like: "Oh, it's the Ampeg SVT and 810 combo with a Fender P. Must suck for live use!" There are too many variables and none of us have the full story.

The OP is referring to FOH and how modern music is mixed. I have watched and listened to MANY sound engineers butcher the sound of various bass players. When bands bring their own sound person and do actual planning with the sound crew, (Meshuggah comes to mind), the resulting sound can be downright amazing. Unfortunately, the cost of doing preparation work like that is not always in reach of many bands. Plus, some bands have NO CLUE how to approach something like that.

 

[Eric Ryan]

I agree it's FOH, 100%. A local venue (Matthew Knight Arena) has hosted multiple concerts I've attended over the year. Zac Brown Band? Sounded amazing. Dierks Bentley? Muddy, but not terrible. Lady Antebellum? Superb. Keith Urban? God-forsakenly horrible.

I'm going to see Extreme & Living Colour in Vegas next week. Hopefully, they do not suffer the same fate. I want Doug & Pat up in my face!

 

[bherman]

We have this phenomenon here locally at our two main venues, one is a decent size outdoor and the other a really nice, older theater. Same setup, usually the same sound company - some shows are great, some its subwoofer hell (kick drum and bass mostly). Some of the bigger acts that came through brought their own sound guy and in some cases their mixer, and was fine. Have talked to local folks involved, and some of what I've heard is on the order of, "that's the way our audiences like it now - kick you in the gut bass", others have attributed it to some sound guys that are near-deaf and don't know any better.

 

[badinage]

Old sound guys aging out had a different idea of what "fat but articulate" sounded like. How many "well-defined bass guitars" do you hear in "popular music" of the past 20+ years?

 

[stigbeve]

If I'm not in an assigned seat at a show I will walk around until I find a spot where the bass sounds best to me.

 

[WG Plum]

Venue construction

This is part of it, along with where you are in the venue, and definitely FOH.

Peter Gabriel isn't someone who would pit on a show with poor sound, nor is Robert Fripp, but Tony Levin sounded awful every time I saw King Crimson and when I saw Gabriel. I doubt Tony would put out a crap signal.

 

[mambo4]

What's going on? Is this your experience too?

Absolutely.
I saw Sting and Peter Gabriel Live back in 2016
I was stoked to see two of my bass heroes on one stage
Tony Levin was horrifyingly inaudible sub woofer mud
But Sting, I assume, had a say, and his bass was clear as a bell.

It seems less a problem in smaller venues, perhaps they just don't have the woofer wattage to destroy the mix.

It's not just live either: Modern mixing and composition seems to think a bass needs to be mixed as a tuned 808 kick, or a scooped & over compressed mp3. Listen to almost any recent recorded & mixed music, Then pick a track from say the 1970s and witness how they used to know how it should be done.

the exceptions are when a group does an "old school" approach like the Dap Kings or Charley Crockett

 

[silky smoove]

How many "well-defined bass guitars" do you hear in "popular music" of the past 20+ years?

Are you referring to recorded music or live music? If the former, an overwhelming large number. If the latter, as can be seen from this thread, it varies.

 

[stevensivak]

In terms of recorded music from many eras, I seem to struggle to hear a nice clear bass being played. I am not sure why this is the case but it can be found all over the place. Since this is what sound engineers hear on a recording, I imagine this affects their point of view in terms of mixing- just a theory.
I have also found that trios, like Khruangbin, have the volumes and tones setup perfectly to enjoy each individual instrument- I wish more recorded and live music allowed me to hear each instrument...

 

[Major Seven]

I have seen/heard all manor of bass and amp, if used, turned into a rumble mess. It is certainly not a particular player, bass, strings, amp, etc. that can be repeatedly identified as the issue. It is a FOH issue.

I have been to outdoor shows where it is different when you move to different spots.

 

[Swerve]

Bandmate of mine saw The Cure on their most recent tour and said the bass sounded awful. Overly loud and distorted. Ruined the show. Think this was in SF.

 

[CryingBass]

As audience members, especially being bass players, we want to hear solid, articulate bass.

Not Mud. ( IMHO )

 

[Major Seven]

Was at the Florida state fair last weekend. Bands at both ends had subwoofers so loud that it hurt from 500 yards away. Low bass and kick drum squeezing my head. Couldnt hear guitar or vocals at all. I just don't get it.

Like the woofers in cars that actually can rattle the body.

 

[dbsfgyd1]

Lots of potential contributing factors.

Perhaps all of the basses sounded bad.

Perhaps the audio techs made artistic choices you don't agree with. Some people are more concerned with quantity and extreme lows, than quality.

Perhaps the sound systems were poorly tuned or inadequate for the rooms.

Perhaps the bass players were cranked so much that the audio tech had insufficient control over the sound of the bass.

Perhaps the acoustics were super bad.

Good info. RE: Item # 2:

I don't want to go down a rabbit hole here, but in my limited exposure to hip hop, that seem to be the preferred low end EQ.

 

[Swerve]

I work with a number of "house" sound people. There is one guy who always makes me a big low end blur. It's so much so that it effects what I hear in my "in ears". So much huge low end I can't escape it even using the in ears. Sometimes it just is what it is, and we just have to deal with it. (maybe)

Local sound person does this to me too. So low you can hear some of the house speaker system farting out. I pointed it out the first time and they got angry and blamed it on me having “fret buzz”. It was so absurd I just shut my mouth and got on with it. Can’t argue with stupid.

 

[Drredplate]

Unfortunately it’s an all too common FOH problem.
Sound engineers obsessed with subs
Maybe they were brought up on that style of music and apply it to everything

 

[Killing Floor]

Where they Jazz basses? If it’s not a P bass the sound tech doesn’t know how to sit it in the mix.

 

[Wasnex]

Good info. RE: Item # 2:

I don't want to go down a rabbit hole here, but in my limited exposure to hip hop, that seem to be the preferred low end EQ.

True, but don't underestimate the impact of bad acoustics.