Why does the bass sound terrible??

[WestyBassBob]

I've been to 4 live shows in medium-to-large venues in the last couple of years. They included smallish indy acts, Ween, and the Cure.

In all cases the bass sound was insufferably bad, and in the same way: a subwoofery drone that shook the seats but had no definition, and no real sense of pitch. Clearly this was the work of the sound people and not the bassists.

All these shows were in Philly, where I've been spending my time lately, so I thought maybe it was a local thing. But my friend who went to a couple of these shows with said, "no, it's everywhere." He's a former professional touring guitarist, and he gets out more than I do.

What's going on? Is this your experience too?

Apologies if this has been complained about already ... I didn't know how to search for it.

I saw the Cure last year at Greatwoods near Boston and they sounded perfect. So it must be either the venue the sound guy there or both. Or maybe you? jK but I do wonder how we perceive sounds differently. It’s clear that we do and age also plays a role. Maybe that’s part of the reason why old people complain about music these days.

 

[Chickenwheels]

Fader rename: Mid Guitar

 

[GreyBeard]

Clearly you have been at concerts where the sound techs don't know how to mix the bass. This has been my experience too.

 

[AngelCrusher]

A more specific answer is because a lot of rock FOH guys are trying to get the loudest sound possible. They will literally brag about the db ceiling they surpassed. That immediately means the bass is screwed because it’s easier to make things super loud with a guitar forward mix and a defined drum sound. Then they give the bass the sub lows to round things out.

I’ve had many conversations about this. Yes it is annoying. Thankfully I don’t have to do rock gigs anymore.

 

[rodl2005]

I saw Buddy Guy last year in Melbourne, Australia, at a rally nice old theatre, good acoustics.
Support band had the muddy, rumbling bass.
Buddy's band had clear, present, sweet sounding bass.

Both bands playing similar style of blues, just one had bass sounding as it 'should've'... imo.
Was it that Buddy's band had better idea of what's applicable, or.. . ?

 

[JazznFunk]

The Lakeland bass was similar to this one but I wasn’t close enough to see the preamp setting on the bass :

Cool. I have a 55-01. That's the Bartolini MK-1 pre/pickup combo. I have a fretted and a fretless. The bass control has a good bit of oomph, but it's not un-musical. I modified mine to have knobs with lines for reference points with the EQ. Without them, you have no way of knowing what the EQ settings were, so it's hard to know if the bass itself was the sole problem.

 

[Aussie Player]

So do you think every band you mentioned has crap bass equipment? I doubt it. I’d be more inclined to look at FOH issues and a “sound engineer” that shouldn’t be running the show

I suggested nothing. Don't play amateur games with me.

 

[Aussie Player]

I saw Buddy Guy last year in Melbourne, Australia, at a rally nice old theatre, good acoustics.
Support band had the muddy, rumbling bass.
Buddy's band had clear, present, sweet sounding bass.

Both bands playing similar style of blues, just one had bass sounding as it 'should've'... imo.
Was it that Buddy's band had better idea of what's applicable, or.. . ?

"Or" is the right answer. That game has been played ever since the support act used the main act PA.

 

[rodl2005]

"Or" is the right answer. That game has been played ever since the support act used the main act PA.

That's right.
I don't know if it was the sound engineer on this particular night, or whether it was inexperienced players (or, perhaps both). The support act definitely didn't seem, and most likely weren't, as experienced as Buddy Guy 's , they were much younger for a start. Didn't seem as tight, locked in, either

 

[foolforthecity]

I suggested nothing. Don't play amateur games with me.

You suggested nothing. I DID. No games here.

 

[WestyBassBob]

A more specific answer is because a lot of rock FOH guys are trying to get the loudest sound possible. They will literally brag about the db ceiling they surpassed. That immediately means the bass is screwed because it’s easier to make things super loud with a guitar forward mix and a defined drum sound. Then they give the bass the sub lows to round things out.

I’ve had many conversations about this. Yes it is annoying. Thankfully I don’t have to do rock gigs anymore.

That was one of
The things I loved about the Cure concert I went to. They were full and clear but not ear splitting loud. You could have a conversation if you wanted to. OTOH I went to a hip hop show a while where if I hadn’t brought I ear plugs I would have had to leave.

 

[Gizmot]

There are so many variables in live sound - venue acoustics, indoor vs outdoor, audience size, style of the artist, the audio system being used, etc - that it’s hard to place blame on one factor.

BUT - it’s the sound guy’s job to make everything come together and deliver a stellar performance. If it doesn’t sound great it’s the sound guy (or sound gal’s) fault

 

[Budbear]

I went to a concert 10 years ago. Journey was playing and the Steve Miller band was the opening act. With Journey the bass was just like you described and they were super loud. Steve Miller sounded far better. They had a far better sound and everything sounded perfect. I’m not really a fan of either but it was my ex wife’s idea. The Steve Miller band wasn’t hurting anyone’s ears but Journey was a different story.

I saw that show at the PNC Bank Arts Center in NJ. Tower of Power was the opening act, followed by Steve, then Journey. First 2 acts were great, sound was pleasantly balanced. We left about 15 minutes into Journey's set. It was that bad. Same acoustics, same board, speakers and locations. Don't know if it was the same engineer, but it became a sludgy mess on the bottom overpowered by a piercing vocal and a guitar tone that sounded like Sam Ash on a Saturday afternoon.

 

[shortscalesrule]

 

[2tonic]

Couldn't read the whole thread. Hurts my brain, too much BS.

Did you work with the Clair Brothers? I took all their old gear of their hands in 2003 ish. Wish I had that old RADAR rig and a few of the Midas Pro 04m's.

Clair Bros., Showco, Audio Analysts, Britannia Row.

 

[GreyBeard]

On my Lakland 5502: If I max the treble & bass and turn the mids to minimum will simulate the bass sound I usually hear from the FoH at many concerts I've attended, Deep and Zingy with no mids. This (bedroom) bass tone gets easily covered up by the kick and cymbals.

 

[Cory rich40]

I saw that show at the PNC Bank Arts Center in NJ. Tower of Power was the opening act, followed by Steve, then Journey. First 2 acts were great, sound was pleasantly balanced. We left about 15 minutes into Journey's set. It was that bad. Same acoustics, same board, speakers and locations. Don't know if it was the same engineer, but it became a sludgy mess on the bottom overpowered by a piercing vocal and a guitar tone that sounded like Sam Ash on a Saturday afternoon.

I saw the concert in Raleigh NC and the tower of power was also there and they also sounded good like the Steve Miller band did.

 

[Bikeguy57]

More like Raymond's every day! I think these guys crank the subs to "10", and go chat up their girlfriend.

 

[claudel]

9 pages with many complaints & few solutions.

What can someone @ The Board do to provide a fat, firm & articulate FOH mix?

What can a bass player do to provide a fat, firm & articulate signal?

 

[FRoss6788]

What can a bass player do to provide a fat, firm & articulate signal?

Send a clean, unaffected DI signal to the board and let the (qualified) sound engineer take it from there.