Why does the bass sound terrible??

[Charlie Tuna]

I've been to 4 live shows in medium-to-large venues in the last couple of years. They included smallish indy acts, Ween, and the Cure.

In all cases the bass sound was insufferably bad, and in the same way: a subwoofery drone that shook the seats but had no definition, and no real sense of pitch. Clearly this was the work of the sound people and not the bassists.

All these shows were in Philly, where I've been spending my time lately, so I thought maybe it was a local thing. But my friend who went to a couple of these shows with said, "no, it's everywhere." He's a former professional touring guitarist, and he gets out more than I do.

What's going on? Is this your experience too?

Apologies if this has been complained about already ... I didn't know how to search for it.

This usually occurs to me when the kick drum is too loud. Those low frequencies blur up the bottom end and definition and pitch go out the window. I was at a reggae concert with two bands over the weekend. The first band was a quartet with the kick drum audible but not chest thumping. The bass was nice and clear. The second band had 13 or 14 members and the kick was double the volume at least. The bass was audible but not remotely close to as clear as the first band. Some HPF'ing may have helped but I think once the kick drum hits certain room resonances and the volume is up, the bass player is going to have a hard time being heard without drastic EQ changes. And those changes may encroach on the guitars and keyboards so ¯\_(ツ)_/¯.

 

[MegaSwing]

It’s a conceptual problem. On the bass side of many mixes, there can be a ridiculous overemphasis on the lowest frequencies instead of the most musical tones. What good is it if the sound is clean, pure, and earth-shaking but too low to distinguish the notes? That, often enough, is not that enjoyable, certainly not for extended periods of time. The sweet spot of bass is generally in the low mids, not at 30hz. Texture matters a LOT.

 

[_Tay_]

I've noticed this last few years gigs I've been too more than ever. Usually the low end is taken by the kick and fair enough it's important but then the basses (often 7enders that 'cut through the mix') are just a hollow mess. Just shows you can have the best gear available but it's still going to sound poopie out front trying to compete with everything else that is more important in the live mix.

 

[badinage]

Too bad Mike Shipley didn't make a video tutorial about mixing to fill sonic holes.

 

[coyote1]

I attribute this to most major movie releases, which in turn infected home theater surround sound and car audio. It’s almost as if every entertainment out there now is designed to “show off the subwoofers”. It has dulled the ears of the average listener, and deafened soundmen.

 

[MultiScaleMale]

Studio is for tone, stage is for performance. It might not be what you want, but concert goers want the thump in their chest and the light show. Don’t expect a pleasant audiophile recreation of the album and enjoy the show.

 

[burgerdj]

It’s a FOH issue/problem. A good engineer can navigate challenging rooms. Some engineers purposely mix way too much sub-bass “for the experience” of “feeling” the music.

 

[Killens84]

I went to a Snarky Puppy concert in a really nice concert hall a few months ago. I was ready to leave after 5 minutes because of the FOH mix. Like mentioned before, the kick drum was the lead voice, followed next by the snare, and Michael League’s bass was nothing but sub-lows with zero clarity. When the full band was playing, I couldn’t discern what Mike was actually playing on bass… I could only feel it in my chest. They’re one of my favorite bands, but FOH ruined that concert.

 

[Geogio]

Where were you sitting? I noticed at a Peter Gabriel concert that I attended - held in a cement ice hockey arena in Washington DC (at the time it was called the MCI Center) which was down by Chinatown... anyway... we sat up in the wings and it was absolutely terrible but I noticed that the floor seating right in front of all the equipment was having a great time. Why? Everything was aimed in their direction and it probably sounded good, but off in the wings and in the nosebleeds where we were it was just indistinguishable cacophonous mash of audio. I was interesting seeing the whole production from the nosebleeds though.

 

[HolmeBass]

Just this past year I ran in to two different sound engineers who proudly told me they run the bass only through the subs.

I did try to reach one of them, explaining that bass is a full range instrument and should appear balanced in all phases of the PA. He seemed mildly intrigued with the concept.

The other guy I didn’t waste by breath on. He’s a hopeless metal drummer doing sound for rock bands.

 

[murphy]

I've been to 4 live shows in medium-to-large venues in the last couple of years. They included smallish indy acts, Ween, and the Cure.

In all cases the bass sound was insufferably bad, and in the same way: a subwoofery drone that shook the seats but had no definition, and no real sense of pitch. Clearly this was the work of the sound people and not the bassists.

All these shows were in Philly, where I've been spending my time lately, so I thought maybe it was a local thing. But my friend who went to a couple of these shows with said, "no, it's everywhere." He's a former professional touring guitarist, and he gets out more than I do.

What's going on? Is this your experience too?

Apologies if this has been complained about already ... I didn't know how to search for it.

I went to see Tony Levin with Peter Gabriel at the big Sports arena where all the big name bands play.
Great seats.
Peter Gabriel was amazing and his band...and Tony Levin looked great, but all I heard was a low thunder from Bass and no slapping and popping and grind and funk fingers Stingray tones I love Tony for...
Ugh!
Last time at these stadiums!

 

[johniecid]

I think too many people are giving credit to what the audience wants. As if those in attendance could say they prefer something different and the FOH would listen.

It's not really what people want, its what they are given. Its often just bad FOH work. Guitars are given too much low-mid prominence, not enough HPF on vocals/guitars/keys, Bass is last instrument considered. Which isn't always a problem.

*I think* an easy way to deal with the sub issue is for sound engineers to create the main mix with the sub fader down and then once a mix is built pull it up to support the mix instead of mixing to the sub (which creates a loudness and harsh highs problem).

But again... FOH engineers don't care what people in audience think. They are getting paid either way and are usually connected to whoever runs the venue so they feel secure. Everyone else is just an idiot complaining.

 

[Phrankho]

Have you considered that the source of the problem may be Philadelphia?

 

[murphy]

This is part of it, along with where you are in the venue, and definitely FOH.

Peter Gabriel isn't someone who would pit on a show with poor sound, nor is Robert Fripp, but Tony Levin sounded awful every time I saw King Crimson and when I saw Gabriel. I doubt Tony would put out a crap signal.

Oh..SNAP!

 

[Bass4ThePublic]

Well most sound guys in my area below the age of 40 do mostly trap/rap style groups, so when it comes to FOH, usually its a subby-muddy mess, or the bass sound sucks in general. Seriously. Ive gone to just using a loud as hell amp and a big cabinet, and mixing accordingly to that. If I have to I’ll mic my cab.

 

[MegaSwing]

It seems like technical perfection quite often does not yield to taste and craft—in many areas, including this one.

 

[murphy]

, The Prodigy

The Prodigy sounded like mud when I saw them too.

 

[Cory rich40]

I've been to 4 live shows in medium-to-large venues in the last couple of years. They included smallish indy acts, Ween, and the Cure.

In all cases the bass sound was insufferably bad, and in the same way: a subwoofery drone that shook the seats but had no definition, and no real sense of pitch. Clearly this was the work of the sound people and not the bassists.

All these shows were in Philly, where I've been spending my time lately, so I thought maybe it was a local thing. But my friend who went to a couple of these shows with said, "no, it's everywhere." He's a former professional touring guitarist, and he gets out more than I do.

What's going on? Is this your experience too?

Apologies if this has been complained about already ... I didn't know how to search for it.

I went to a concert 10 years ago. Journey was playing and the Steve Miller band was the opening act. With Journey the bass was just like you described and they were super loud. Steve Miller sounded far better. They had a far better sound and everything sounded perfect. I’m not really a fan of either but it was my ex wife’s idea. The Steve Miller band wasn’t hurting anyone’s ears but Journey was a different story.

 

[Cory rich40]

Actually, I just remembered something... I recorded a few tracks with this band years ago, and I hated the sound in the initial mix/demo.
The bass was just lots of low end and little definition... and I was playing a Stingray with minimal/no EQ, just the compressor they put me through.

I ended up, in trying to explain what I meant, moving the EQ points on my bass, removing a LOT of the very low end and bringing the mids back up to nearly flat. The sound engineer understood what I meant, he knew what he was doing, he just felt my bass should sound that way.
I suspect this is what happens in many cases. Is it a trend that will pass? SUBs are great when used tastefully. A bit like slap

It’s funny because my guitarist says that mids cause a muddy sound. If I turn up the bass and get low he is happy. But the bassy low sound is what theoretically what should cause mud. Then you have the factor of the venue and room itself not to mention the people in it which are all factors. I do know that when the guitarists and the bassist are playing in the same frequencies that can cause mud. But what the person described here is something probably far different

 

[Spectre Gunner]

Was at the Florida state fair last weekend. Bands at both ends had subwoofers so loud that it hurt from 500 yards away. Low bass and kick drum squeezing my head. Couldnt hear guitar or vocals at all. I just don't get it.

I also went to the FL State Fair and I try to go every year. They have live music going all weekend. I know what you mean about the bass being so loud. I could hear bass on top of all the fair noise from 500+ yards. If you sat in the seats near the middle it was of course, unnecessarily loud but the mix was certainly better in that area. As soon as you left the seating area all you could hear was boomy wooly bass. But of course, bass sound can travel for miles compared to the high freaks .

I sat and listened to two bands and I thought both were very good. I have no idea who they were but both bass players were very good and served the songs well.

Anyone happen to know who the band in these pics are or maybe the bass player? Looked like he was playing a Mike Lull or Sadowsky Jazz.