I agree that sometimes happens, but I definitely saw the 'changing of the guard' in my case.
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Why does the bass sound terrible??
- Thread starter paulraphael
- Start date
Just absurd. Perfect example of music that shouldn't be mixed that way. I know plenty of FOH people who are very serious about music and audio and they "get it". They know how the music should sound. So who is pushing for this approach? Is it just assumed now that the general listening public expects everything to sound like a s*#^ty car system with an overly cranked sub, or how it sounds when a teenager cranks all the low end on his Beats by Dre?
So do you think every band you mentioned has crap bass equipment? I doubt it. I’d be more inclined to look at FOH issues and a “sound engineer” that shouldn’t be running the show
You may think it's "kids these days" but it's actually every major label putting out music mixed to be best suited for the big Live Nation scoop.
Smooth_bass88
vaxx!
- Oct 31, 2006
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The problem of getting a good bass tone in a basketball arena (or any very large venue) is a unique challenge. Of all the arena or outdoor shed concerts I’ve been to, the best bass tones were by U2, Phish, John Mayer (Sean and Pino), and Dead and Co (Oteil).
I was disappointed at Tool’s mix. There were a couple of Rush concerts I saw that were somewhat crappy sounding. I saw Bob Weir with Don Was on bass and you literally couldn’t even hear it- partially because he was playing upright.
I was disappointed at Tool’s mix. There were a couple of Rush concerts I saw that were somewhat crappy sounding. I saw Bob Weir with Don Was on bass and you literally couldn’t even hear it- partially because he was playing upright.
For anyone interested, I was on the design team for a local medium-sized music venue that hosts fairly large acts regularly. During the initial design phase, I was sent drawings of the venue (floor plans, elevations, etc...). The Architect's initial floor plan showed the sound booth tucked BEHIND the stage, off to the side, out of the way. I politely inquired about the location, and the Architect said, "Yeah, I wasn't sure where it should go, so just put it in an area where it was not disrupting the bar and open areas."
At that moment, I realized how poorly this was gonna go, and eventually politely suggested that the sound booth, at a minimum, would need to go where they had a second bar area, right in the middle just in front of the balcony. He was adamant that it couldn't go there. I had to let it go, and focus on my actual role on the team, for I am not an acoustic engineer or AV consultant. I'm just a weekend warrior musician on the side.
Went to an opening act as part of an invitation from the venue owners to an opening party / concert, and guess what....sound booth was right in the middle, just in front of the balcony. Not sure who eventually saw the light, but it definitely wasn't the Architect.
But the venue still sounded HORRIBLE. Why? Because the owners didn't hire a single person on the design team that knew anything about music venues or acoustics. They spent millions of dollars to make a music venue, and didn't know what they were doing. I'm sure the AV folks were shaking their heads while designing their system. The room was never designed for acoustics. They eventually spent a lot of time and money on acoustics (damping, etc...), but it couldn't change the inherent flaws of the space. Unfortunately, that's too often the nature of building construction. Developers, Owners, leadership boards, etc....just don't know what they're doing, and we all feel it each time we're in the spaces.
At that moment, I realized how poorly this was gonna go, and eventually politely suggested that the sound booth, at a minimum, would need to go where they had a second bar area, right in the middle just in front of the balcony. He was adamant that it couldn't go there. I had to let it go, and focus on my actual role on the team, for I am not an acoustic engineer or AV consultant. I'm just a weekend warrior musician on the side.
Went to an opening act as part of an invitation from the venue owners to an opening party / concert, and guess what....sound booth was right in the middle, just in front of the balcony. Not sure who eventually saw the light, but it definitely wasn't the Architect.
But the venue still sounded HORRIBLE. Why? Because the owners didn't hire a single person on the design team that knew anything about music venues or acoustics. They spent millions of dollars to make a music venue, and didn't know what they were doing. I'm sure the AV folks were shaking their heads while designing their system. The room was never designed for acoustics. They eventually spent a lot of time and money on acoustics (damping, etc...), but it couldn't change the inherent flaws of the space. Unfortunately, that's too often the nature of building construction. Developers, Owners, leadership boards, etc....just don't know what they're doing, and we all feel it each time we're in the spaces.
So many times a room is designed for the "look" with no thought of acoustics, unfortunately many of those rooms are intended to be performance spaces!
Sometimes the thought is that the sound system will fix the glaring acoustic issues, yes it takes a properly deployed system but that only can do so much in bad room.
For sporting event venues sometimes the design is to make the room loud to help build excitement during the game......and then the next day that room is used to host a concert!
I've lost count of the times I have heard people how great the acoustics are in their room while all I'm hearing is a 15 sec reverb decay with some flutter echo thrown in and that's just with two people talking to each other.
Yea that kind of room can work for some un amplified music but many times those are not the show that's in those rooms.
........or the sound person is clueless, I've endured a few of those mixing on my system. To be fair one guy was good and I even booked him to help with a big event later in my schedule that year.
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Unfortunately it seems OP doesn’t have enough information for you to be of any assistance which sucks I guess. Maybe someone else can help. Lol
In my experience it seems to be a choice on the part of the sound engineer, or whoever is directing the sound engineer. Others seem to agree. There is also the notion that bass is to be felt, which may indeed be a symptom of the audiences preferences not aligning with what is “objectively good sound” according to either the engineer or the musicians. Lots of people like things we think are crummy because….. it’s just what they like. Lol
Alternatively, I’ve been to shows where the bassist complained about say….. not being able to hear themself….. the bassist could be cussing and flapping at the engineer trying to sound good on stage, only for it to sound like hot garbage in the crowd. I know played an oddly shaped amp that sounded like hot garbage to me up close, but apparently cut the mix like a razor for the crowd….
This has happened to me so many times, with multiple genres and a wide variety of venues, that it makes me think twice about going to live shows now. Almost all of them are too damn loud, regardless of genre. And nearly all of them relegate the bass to undefined mush.
p.s. I once saw a car that was throbbing with massive woofer sound. The driver had no clue that he had a short in his wiring, and thus did not know that his brake lights only came on when a certain low frequency pitch occurred. I now suspect he was on his way to a gig as FOH sound guy.
p.s. I once saw a car that was throbbing with massive woofer sound. The driver had no clue that he had a short in his wiring, and thus did not know that his brake lights only came on when a certain low frequency pitch occurred. I now suspect he was on his way to a gig as FOH sound guy.
Ever seen any acts at the WOW hall? I've seen a handful over the years (even played one) and it is terrible. The Shook Twins, for one, are twin lead singing/guitarist sisters, violin, drums, bass, few others. Hardly a rock/rap act, but damn they were mixed like a dub-step group. The bassist was very good, but the overall sound was awful. Been like that for years there so I mostly avoid that spot.
I've only seen two Ducks basketball games at Matthew Knight but the acoustics for those were amazing.
I saw the rolling stones in boston years ago. The opening act was The Pretenders. The Pretenders sounded perfect - you could hear every instrument and the vocals were clean, out front and wonderful. When the stones came on stage they sounded muddy, boomy and poorly mixed. Same venue but something went south real quick. It was a real disappointment. My first thought was that it was because of a lousy sound person at the board. You never know.
Only Jonatha Brooke, that was years ago. She deserved a MUCH better venue...like the Hult or Cuthbert.
However...I saw The Hendrix Experience at the Hult a couple years ago. dUg Pinnick on bass & vocals, Satriani on guitar; it honestly didn't sound all that great. When I saw Satriani with Stu Hamm & Jonathan Mover at the Hult in 1992, I swear I could pick out individual string windings the sound was so great.
JazznFunk
Supporting Member
Could you see the *Lakland in question close enough to truly know what the preamp settings were? Lakland's 'Jazz Bass' offerings do not typically come with a preamp installed - they're passive by default. If it was a 55-94 (or 55-02) with the LH-3 preamp (J-MM pickup arrangement), then this could have been plausible.... and you might have been able to see the little white line on the bass knob to identify preamp setting(s). If it truly was a 'Jazz Bass', then I question if it was the bass itself that was the problem.... most likely FOH and/or amplifier EQ again.
Brief threadjack.
Trey Gunn lived in Eugene in the early 90's and his band Punishment Farm (great name) were one of the first rock bands to play the Hult center as they were trying to expand beyond classical music.
/end threadjack
The Lakeland bass was similar to this one but I wasn’t close enough to see the preamp setting on the bass :
I would add that it is more than a FOH issue, often it stems from a building issue. Venues designed for music, are built that way from the ground up, great acoustics being the goal that the architects and engineers are serving. Music in those venues will sound great without much work from FOH. Could play acoustic in those venues and sound great, at lower volume.
If the venue is built for hockey, or other sports, or for bar type activities in a rectangular box, there is only so much sound folks can do. It might be possible with skill and equipment, but FOH staff are working against the building, instead of the building doing all that work natively.
Also, tastes are weird. Many folks busy paying money to get drunk, like that boom, boom, muddy, bass.
Seems like a current fashion is "kick drum and lead vocal" show, everything else is less.
I don't go to a lot of shows, but this is my exact complaint for the last 15 years or so. I've always attributed it to sound guys thinking a loud and deep bass drum is good. The bass gets swallowed up in those sub-low frequencies.
