Why doesn't Ampeg have....?

[JimmyM]

Regarding the "innovation".
As far as I can see, all their current speaker models are multiple 10s boxes or single 15s. With or without horn. Sealed or ported in some cases.
Thats it.

No horns, bandpass, isobaric, isovent, 2.5 way, multi-way, dedicated mids, dome/cone tweeter, active crossover, 8" speakers, 12" speakers or 18" speakers etc.

They sure used to offer many more "outside the box" products some years ago. Now it is very narrow, predictable and traditional.

Nobody bought them when SLM made them, and nobody will buy them now. They might have a shot with a 3-way, but if it doesn't sound like what we expect, they won't sell either.

(Which clearly is enough to survive in this branch of the MI business.)
It would like JBL to stop all R&D and only re-launch mid 70s 4560 style boxes with lead-sled amps.

Except JBL's market is completely different from Ampeg's.

Innovation just to be innovative means nothing, sorry.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Innovation just to be innovative means nothing, sorry.

+1

If you cant sell it, there is no reason to produce it.

If you take a look out there at some of the most innovative bass cabs, you will see they are mostly low volume sales. This is for a few reasons.

Availability/awareness: the consumer might not be able to get to try one of these cabs, or may not even be aware of them

Price: Low production numbers means higher initial cost. There are a lot of guys who are happy buying $100 cabs off of CL and playing them till they are fire wood.

Want/demand: Even if a consumer is aware of an innovative design, they may not have a desire for the change.

Ampeg sells a lot of units, they might not be what everyone wants but its hard to argue with their sales numbers.

 

[two fingers]

Problem is, to get a 4 Ohm 610 you would have to use drivers that differ from what is in the sealed 810 and 410. Thus the cab would sound different.

This. The math doesn't work out using any current offerings.

 

[johnpbass]

Well, everyone does not (although many do) want thick, mid heavy, colored tone in a very uneven distribution on the stage. (Read SVT-810E.)
Those who prefer other tonal qualities nowadays have to look elsewhere as Ampeg has discontinued products that did do other things than the 410/610/810 or 115 deliver.

Agree with you on that but in terms of the Ampeg 810 - I'm not sure the return on sales would be worth the effort of developing an 810 box that sounded different than the tried and tru SVT cab.

 

[two fingers]

Nobody bought them when SLM made them, and nobody will buy them now.

Innovation just to be innovative means nothing, sorry.

I couldn't agree more. I owned one of the Isovent jobs in the 90's. Last I heard I owned one of about 300 that ever sold. Ampeg does what it does very well. Trying to do what everybody else does will only fail.

Nobody wants Fender to build a Les Paul. Nobody wants Gibson to make a P bass. Nobody wants Ford to make TVs. And only about a dozen people on the whole planet (all accounted for right here) want Ampeg to make 15 different kinds of cabs other than the ones they already make well.

They don't sell because there just aren't that many of you out there.

So if you want a different kind of cab, go get one with a different badge on it. Why does it HAVE to say Ampeg on it?

Of course, you could always do what the DIY bass builders do and make yourself a cab (or buy somebody else's cab) and slap and Ampeg logo on it.

 

[CL400Peavey]

I couldn't agree more. I owned one of the Isovent jobs in the 90's. Last I heard I owned one of about 300 that ever sold. Ampeg does what it does very well. Trying to do what everybody else does will only fail.

Nobody wants Fender to build a Les Paul. Nobody wants Gibson to make a P bass. Nobody wants Ford to make TVs. And only about a dozen people on the whole planet (all accounted for right here) want Ampeg to make 15 different kinds of cabs other than the ones they already make well.

They don't sell because there just aren't that many of you out there.

So if you want a different kind of cab, go get one with a different badge on it. Why does it HAVE to say Ampeg on it?

Of course, you could always do what the DIY bass builders do and make yourself a cab (or buy somebody else's cab) and slap and Ampeg logo on it.

I want an ampeg built Ford F-350...

 

[worxforme]

That's just trying too hard to be outrageous on the internet. Fail.

Anyway, you obviously haven't heard the Heritage 810e.

The way I see and hear it, the "fail" is biased rhetoric.

I'm not here to fight or be "outrageous" and someone with a big picture vision instead of a myopic view point would know I was referring to a 610.

A 610, in theory, has a smaller market, I don't believe sales volume would be able to offset fixed costs to come in at the same price point and, most importantly, quality as the Berg without doing some or all of the manufacturing overseas.

Besides, the heritage series is "designed and assembled" in the US, which is either a marketing "fail" by a large company to articulate or most probably eludes to something else...

 

[JimmyM]

Ampeg did a pretty good job with the new-ish SVT210 cabs. It's a different driver (and neo), and it does a pretty good job with the sealed 810 thing.

The speakers in the 210av are actually ceramic. They're just lighter duty speakers than the 410he and 810e, and have a smaller magnet.

 

[CL400Peavey]

The speakers in the 210av are actually ceramic. They're just lighter duty speakers than the 410he and 810e, and have a smaller magnet.

He was looking at the SVT210.

 

[JimmyM]

The way I see and hear it, the "fail" is biased rhetoric.

I'm not here to fight or be "outrageous" and someone with a big picture vision instead of a myopic view point would know I was referring to a 610.

And then you made a little child labor dig. That's not at all outrageous, is it?

A 610, in theory, has a smaller market, I don't believe sales volume would be able to offset fixed costs to come in at the same price point and, most importantly, quality as the Berg without doing some or all of the manufacturing overseas.

Well that remains to be seen. But the Berg isn't cheap, either. It's quite high as far as large cabs go.

Besides, the heritage series is "designed and assembled" in the US, which is either a marketing "fail" by a large company to articulate or most probably eludes to something else...

Yes, I'm sure all your gear is made without a single Chinese part, too

 

[JimmyM]

He was looking at the SVT210.

Right. It's called the SVT 210av. The only other 210 they have currently is the Pro Neo 210hlf.

 

[hennessybass]

Right. It's called the SVT 210av. The only other 210 they have currently is the Pro Neo 210hlf.

Yep. I was talking about the micro series... http://www.ampeg.com/products/classic/microvr/

That's crazy that those are not neo. What ever it is, it's a light cab.

Point being, it's not the same speaker as in the 8x10, yet ampeg was able to get the 810 sound out of a 210 with different speakers. If they can do it with a 210, I'm sure they could do it with a 610 if they wanted to.

 

[johnpbass]

You know what would be really really nice? A 100 watt tube head. Oh wait, they are working on that. Never mind!

 

[JimmyM]

Ya, it is crazy they're not neo and still only 25 lbs., but if they were neo, they would be more than $300 And agreed about the 610 that sounds like the 810. They could do it. You really only need the Thiele/Small parameters to be similar, and the impedance of each speaker matters way less. But it would require a whole new round of R&D to happen, and they'd have to be reasonably convinced it would sell. I personally have my doubts.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Ya, it is crazy they're not neo and still only 25 lbs., but if they were neo, they would be more than $300 And agreed about the 610 that sounds like the 810. They could do it. You really only need the Thiele/Small parameters to be similar, and the impedance of each speaker matters way less. But it would require a whole new round of R&D to happen, and they'd have to be reasonably convinced it would sell. I personally have my doubts.

+1

I dont see it being a huge seller.

I DO think they should consider a ported 215 though. If they could get one out on the market for ~$650-700 they would have a serious contender IMHO.

Not a lot of mass market 215's out there right now, even less good ones, and even fewer at that price point.

 

[johnpbass]

I would bet that the Ampeg product development team would have a pretty good idea of what people want in the way of new products. They know what will and will not sell. Unless I'm just being naiive - which is possible, since I am pretty naiive in general.

 

[beans-on-toast]

Loud is always looking into what products they should offer. I guess that the simple answer is, there isn't a 610 in their lineup because it isn't in their best interest to offer one.

In order for a product to be financially viable, they have to have a certain sales volume. They wouldn't want to dilute their own market and reduce their 410 and 810 sales.

Finding the right price balance is important and it depends on how much profit they make on each cab. How would you price a 610? It would have to be less than the 810 but probably close to it and more than the 410. But choosing the right price is a hard call. Let's assume that their biggest seller is an 810. Maybe the profit margin is good, maybe it is less and they make up the profit in volume sales. Taking away those 810 sales could hurt their bottom line in favor of offering a less profitable 610.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

Loud is always looking into what products they should offer. I guess that the simple answer is, there isn't a 610 in their lineup because it isn't in their best interest to offer one.

In order for a product to be financially viable, they have to have a certain sales volume. They wouldn't want to dilute their own market and reduce their 410 and 810 sales.

Finding the right price balance is important and it depends on how much profit they make on each cab. How would you price a 610? It would have to be less than the 810 but probably close to it and more than the 410. But choosing the right price is a hard call. Let's assume that their biggest seller is an 810. Maybe the profit margin is good, maybe it is less and they make up the profit in volume sales. Taking away those 810 sales could hurt their bottom line in favor of offering a less profitable 610.

Are you familiar with Ampeg's current product lineup at all? They do have a 6x10 already, and it's priced the exact same as the 8x10.

 

[jmattbassplaya]

+1

I dont see it being a huge seller.

I DO think they should consider a ported 215 though. If they could get one out on the market for ~$650-700 they would have a serious contender IMHO.

Not a lot of mass market 215's out there right now, even less good ones, and even fewer at that price point.

I could agree that the 6x10 wouldn't be a heavy hitter in sales, but if the 6x10s not going to be a heavy hitter then there is no way a 2x15 would be. That's a cab I never see being used on any live stage, and I play and go out to a lot of shows on any given week. That's also not a cab I hear many players dreaming about getting one day, either.

 

[GregC]

+1

I dont see it being a huge seller.

I DO think they should consider a ported 215 though. If they could get one out on the market for ~$650-700 they would have a serious contender IMHO.

Not a lot of mass market 215's out there right now, even less good ones, and even fewer at that price point.

Fair enough, but I wonder if they sell much of the 610HLF. I haven't seen them around much at all.