Why don't club drummers embrace electronic kits more often?

[Wasnex]

I’m very familiar with electronic drums and regularly use them when doing proproduction: saves me the time of having to write the MIDI myself.

However, if you aren’t using great multi velocity samples and a laptop to trigger them there’s no way they’d even remotely stand up to an acoustic kit sonically on a gig: the actual physical rebound of all but the very most expensive e kits isn’t the same as an acoustic kit either.

There’s a reason when you record in the studio you mic up a kit, and it’s definitely not because the e drums “sound too much like a CD”

Acoustics are often horrible in live performance venues and eliminating the sound emanating from acoustic drums can greatly improve certain aspects of the situation.

Whether it's an advantage or not really depends upon the musical requirements. I think it can work really well with a lot of pop music, but not so well with styles that require a lot of control and touch.

If you have a ham-fisted drummer who doesn't tune the drums, or play with any control or touch, electronic drums probably offer an advantage...but good luck convincing the drummer .

 

[arbiterusa]

As a drummer - been playing almost as long as I’ve been playing bass - I’ll just say three things:

1. Acoustic drums are way more fun than electronic drums. I can get a hundred sounds out of a real cymbal. That is something that can’t be done with any electronic kit, not yet, not even in the realm of possibility. It will happen, though.
2. It’s not that hard to play quietly. I don’t like playing with loud drummers and audiences hate it.
3. Huge advances have been made with electronic drums but they STILL don’t trigger properly 100% of the time. Imagine if your bass played 99 out of every hundred notes properly. You’d go bonkers in two songs.

It’s where drumming is going and that’s good. I’d say that they’re at a level where I’d be totally fine bringing them to every rehearsal. Not to a gig. Not quite yet. But any drummer worth playing with should be able to play quietly enough that they aren’t necessary.

ETA for the OP: I know we joke about it a lot around here, but seriously: fire your drummer. At best, he’s an inconsiderate lout.

 

[JimmyM]

Electronic drums sound so...um...electronic. It is patently obvious when a drummer is using them.

 

[Tim Skaggs]

I play with a drummer that used an electronic kit for years, back before the mesh-type impact pads were developed. He said he would still be playing them if it was not for the carpal tunnel problem he developed from playing the early version.....

Another drummer I played with for a while was of the belief since all the sounds for electronic kit are samples of real kits, he would just play a real kit, and eliminate the translation.

 

[BAG]

Electronic drums sound so...um...electronic. It is patently obvious when a drummer is using them.

Cheap ones.... i agree.... but the top of the line electronic drums these days are extremely good and, in a band mix when volume is needed to be tamed, can sound better than most acoustic sets.

I've been lucky enough to play with some excellent drummers that can play with real feel..... but for most drummers being able to control their volume in the FOH is far superior than any perceived lack of real sound.

 

[Wasnex]

As a drummer - been playing almost as long as I’ve been playing bass - I’ll just say three things:

1. Acoustic drums are way more fun than electronic drums. I can get a hundred sounds out of a real cymbal. That is something that can’t be done with any electronic kit, not yet, not even in the realm of possibility. It will happen, though.
2. It’s not that hard to play quietly. I don’t like playing with loud drummers and audiences hate it.
3. Huge advances have been made with electronic drums but they STILL don’t trigger properly 100% of the time. Imagine if your bass played 99 out of every hundred notes properly. You’d go bonkers in two songs.

It’s where drumming is going and that’s good. I’d say that they’re at a level where I’d be totally fine bringing them to every rehearsal. Not to a gig. Not quite yet. But any drummer worth playing with should be able to play quietly enough that they aren’t necessary.

ETA for the OP: I know we joke about it a lot around here, but seriously: fire your drummer. At best, he’s an inconsiderate lout.

It's been really long time since I messed with this stuff, but I remember the electronic drum sets we used were not plug and play perfect. With both the TrapKat and V-Drums we spent a lot of time manually dialing in parameters in the user interface to try and make the drums as responsive and realistic as possible. I suspect a lot of people are tech-phobic and don't know about or attempt to do any fine tuning. Although this sort of fine tuning will not make the electronic drums perfect, it does make them better. The automatic tuning is only good for getting you in the ballpark IMHO.

 

[StayLow]

An unending line of top pros, engineers and producers would use e-drums instead of acoustic if they could. Imagine the time, transportation costs, etc. they'd save.

You can get away with it for heavily processed and typically triggered music like electro, harder rock, etc. that's without much, if any, subtlety.

Same as bands that get away with no real amps though, it's very limited to heavily processed-sounding music that often goes along with lights/production and backing tracks played to audiences who wouldn't know a Strat from a Rhoades and couldn't care less.

TD-50, though I realize the sound in the vid isn't actually live and at times it shows drummer with an acoustic kit:


Or this, which is arguably the same genre if you think about it. In this case there's live audio of real/triggered drums/samples with no amps/cabs for guitars and bass):




Both acts in those vids are awesome at what they do and serve their audiences very well. I am not denigrating them, and we should all pray to have half the presentation and performance sills.

However unless it's the synth/poppier/industrial/electro side of things it sounds totally unsatisfying to only hear a band through the PA. Real instruments in organic music include the amps required to amplify their sound in order to be convincing in the live arena, in my experience onstage and in the audience. And yes I know all about Kemper, etc.

At the other end of the spectrum you have jazz. I mean real jazz with free playing and serious sonic communication, dynamics and musical language going down, not some elevator/cruise ship sh...stuff... and in that genre there's zero chance for e-drums to be anywhere near expressive enough or sound credible, nor would anyone in those bands or audiences likely stand for it.

The bass equivalent might be a bass keytar or "Rock Band" controller, not a normal electric bass through a smaller amp or amp-less/IEM setup.

Drum shields look bad enough and the e-drums that are not at the very highest end, and specifically made to look and feel like real drums, look utterly ridiculous onstage unless you're in an appropriate genre.

$7500
Roland V-Drums TD-50KV 5-piece Electronic Drum Set

Learning to play properly is a far better and more rewarding layout.

 

[DuckSoup]

So I'll provide some insight since I've been playing drums pretty much my entire life. Bass guitar is just my second instrument.

I actually have an electric set at home and I've used it at small gigs in the past. It works great on the small venues but there are downsides to it. The biggest is that you need a good computer to produce your sound. A lot of the computers or drum machines that come with sets such as the Roland td-20 sound good but are nothing compared to a real acoustic set. I personally had a license and ran toontrack Superior drummer on a Mac, and used that as my drum machine, and just connected my drums through my Mac. It produced more of a studio sound and less of a live sound, but it still sounded really good for what it was.

The thing is though, this worked well for certain cover songs and less complicated stuff. But when I wanted a specific sound out of my cymbals or a different sound for my snare drum playing more towards the rim, I just couldn't get that with any electric set. Also cymbal muting just isn't the same and not as responsive. Lastly playing the ride cymbal in and around the Bell just doesn't produce the same type of sound. There are a lot of things you have to sacrifice for running an electric set. Just like bass guitar players are very specific about the type of sound and tone that they want out of their equipment, drummers are the same way.

I can go on and on about this, but I think I've covered what some of the other guys here have covered already.

 

[JimmyM]

Cheap ones.... i agree.... but the top of the line electronic drums these days are extremely good and, in a band mix when volume is needed to be tamed, can sound better than most acoustic sets.

I've been lucky enough to play with some excellent drummers that can play with real feel..... but for most drummers being able to control their volume in the FOH is far superior than any perceived lack of real sound.

That's what sound techs tell me. I don't agree whatsoever. You really have to watch your P's and Q's with all electronic drum kits that I've played, even the nice ones. Drag your foot even a little on the bass drum pedal and it sounds like a hit where it isn't supposed to go, even if you can't hear it at all on a regular bass drum. Do too fast a roll on a drum and it sounds like it's computer generated. And arbiter's point about cymbals only having one sound is the big giveaway. They have improved greatly from the early days of Syndrums and Simmons. They are great as a supplement for sound effects and certain styles where you want to sound computery. But they still sound computer-generated if you just want to sound like a natural drum set. Throw up a Plexiglas cage of shame if you must, fire drummers until you find one that plays like you want, but don't make drummers use electronic kits!

 

[fourstringburn]

Why?

Same reason you wouldn't play bass lines with a Key-tar.

 

[lowfreqgeek]

Why don't more bass players play keyboard bass? A little 2-octave controller is a lot easier to deal with than wood and strings, and sounds just as good, right?

I play with several fantastic drummers (some of whom you've heard on the radio) who can play with as much passion and intensity on a 200sqft patio as they do on a festival stage, at an appropriate volume for each situation. The nuance and dynamics they can get out of real drums far exceeds what they can draw out of even really good electronic drums. Sure, some styles of music can get away with an electronic kit better than others, but there's no need if the drummer is actually skilled at his craft. That's my take, anyway.

 

[GazzBass]

They haven't discovered fire yet nevermind electricity.

 

[fretlessguy]

One word- Flock of Seagulls

Yes, really there are three, but I see your point. They were kewl.

 

[fretlessguy]

As of this week our drummer will be taking the e-drum challenge. We have had a great deal of problems in our acoustic drums in our church sanctuary, and a five grand electric set is arriving this week. He is NOT looking forward to it. Hopefully he will take advantage of the percussion possibilities that come with it and develop a liking to it.
Besides the drums, we are all getting in ear monitoring, which I don't care for myself, so change we must. I will keep my studio headphones nearby just in case. I know somewhat now he feels.

 

[emblymouse]

Hate hate hate them. Not that you asked No whomp. No smak. How can one groove?

 

[elgranluis]

I thought this was TalkBass , not talk drums .

 

[JimmyM]

I thought this was TalkBass , not talk drums .

Lighten up, Francis.

 

[mbelue]

Troubleshooting.

The very first time a drummer had to figure out why this pad didn't trigger as expected they are done with electronic kit.

Many of them just don't want to fool with it.

Most electronic kit are far more complex than your average shoe-gazer's pedal board.

Personally I love playing with them, but the downsides are a real drag. It's great once they are all set up and you are ready to track and for no reason the brain ***** itself and remaps every trigger.
Or the sensitivity goes out of calibration and a tom strike triggers a cymbal sample.

Nothing in your average Luddite drummer's previous experience gives them the tools to fix that stuff.

I'm not trying to imply they are unreliable, just that those problems are completely unlike a tension screw on a hihat.

 

[JimmyM]

Future Man Roy Wooten does the best with electronic drums out of anyone I've heard, but they do still sound like electronic drums. They work a treat with Bela Fleck, though.

 

[jackn1202]

They're just no fun. The little nuances of playing just don't come through like you want them to as a drummer. Grace notes? Only if you want to shell out several grand. Acoustic drums are cheaper to buy, maintain, and they won't become obsolete within five years. They also don't break like electronic kits do: Those electronic pads sure don't last forever, especially when you're a harder hitting drummer. And replacing said pads will run you at least a hundred bucks a pad, likely more if you play a nicer kit. As bad as the drum pads can be, cymbals will always be worse: virtually no bell, they feel completely wrong, and if you hit 'em to hard they snap... don't ask how I figured that last one out After all that... what happens when the singer gets wasted and falls on your kit after a show? Or someone throws a beer at you? Acoustic kit, not a big deal. Clean it up, reset your stands, you're all good. Electronic kit? You're screwed bro.

Just find a better drummer. Heck, if you're in Austin I'll try out for the spot Also, putting thin t-shirts over the snare makes it much quieter, and it sounds kinda nice too. The snare is 90% of the challenge of playing quietly (that could not have been worded worse ). Quieting the cymbals is easy once you've practiced it a bit. The toms too, plus you don't use 'em as often so they're less of a problem. The kick, put a pillow inside against the batter head (duh). They also make kick beaters that are quieter but they're still loud enough to use on stage. I've never used one so I know nothing about 'em, but I saw one at a local shop one time. There's a million ways to quiet the drummer down if he's willing

This has all been said already by other drummers on here but I hate electric kits so much I feel the need to stamp my foot NO!