Why don't club drummers embrace electronic kits more often?

[lowfreqgeek]

Future Man Roy Wooten does the best with electronic drums out of anyone I've heard, but they do still sound like electronic drums. They work a treat with Bela Fleck, though.

Future Man did some AMAZING things with electronic drum samples, but he could also play the real things just as well. Still, for what the Flecktones were doing at that time, there was absolutely nothing else like it going on anywhere. He really made those sounds work in that context.

 

[elgranluis]

Lighten up, Francis.

Sorry I got carried away . Read through the whole thing though .

Cheers !

 

[fhm555]

Since no one has mentioned it yet, please allow me.
Find someone who owns cocktail kit and knows how to use it. Extra points if they break out the rods.
I've been blessed twice to have played with drummers who owned and knew all about how to properly exploit these marvels of the drum world, and we never had a problem with unmiked drums in a two guitar format through Deluxe Reverb amps and my bass at 350w through a 410, but we always worked hard on volume control anyway.

 

[Wasnex]

Future Man Roy Wooten does the best with electronic drums out of anyone I've heard, but they do still sound like electronic drums. They work a treat with Bela Fleck, though.

To be fair, I am pretty sure Future Man's drumitar has some limiting factors that are not a problem with electronic drums. Gotta give him creds for creativity though.

 

[KohanMike]

My added thought is the setup/breakdown and transport. Seems to me electronic kits can be handled faster and take up less space when transported. I'm the staff photographer for the Los Angeles Layers Philharmonic Big Band of Barristers and the drummer, who early in his life was a pro with big bands, lugs this major kit, has to arrive an hour earlier than everyone else and leave an hour later because of how long it takes to handle his kit, and he's in his 70s.

 

[JimmyM]

To be fair, I am pretty sure Future Man's drumitar has some limiting factors that are not a problem with electronic drums. Gotta give him creds for creativity though.

Maybe...you'd have to ask him but other than the bass drum sound requiring him to use fingers, I don't know that there's a whole lot of limitation vs electronic drums. Not the way he plays the Drumitar. He still uses the Drumitar and he's perfectly capable of playing regular drums and darn good at them.

 

[Wasnex]

Since no one has mentioned it yet, please allow me.
Find someone who owns cocktail kit and knows how to use it. Extra points if they break out the rods.
I've been blessed twice to have played with drummers who owned and knew all about how to properly exploit these marvels of the drum world, and we never had a problem with unmiked drums in a two guitar format through Deluxe Reverb amps and my bass at 350w through a 410, but we always worked hard on volume control anyway.

I remember fighting incessantly with one of my drummers over volume. He insisted what I wanted wasn't possible because, "You have to play with a certain intensity in order to get control." I knew he was full of it, but bided my time.

One day in a hotel bar I found a drummer killing super fast and technical latin beats while playing so soft you could talk without shouting. And this was in a room with tile floors. I ran upstairs to offer to buy my drummer a beer . He had about $80K in debt for his fancy University of Miami music degree, so I stepped on his pride a little. I said, "If he can do it, why can't you?" On that day we made progress.

 

[JimmyM]

My added thought is the setup/breakdown and transport. Seems to me electronic kits can be handled faster and take up less space when transported. I'm the staff photographer for the Los Angeles Layers Philharmonic Big Band of Barristers and the drummer, who early in his life was a pro with big bands, lugs this major kit, has to arrive an hour earlier than everyone else and leave an hour later because of how long it takes to handle his kit, and he's in his 70s.

My band's drummer is like that. But I know other drummers who can get in and out almost as quick as sax players.

 

[Nick Danger]

The drummer in my band uses rods when we play a small room or have to play quieter than normal. E-drums still have too many issues to be gig worthy.

 

[fhm555]

I remember fighting incessantly with one of my drummers over volume. He insisted what I wanted wasn't possible because, "You have to play with a certain intensity in order to get control." I knew he was full of it, but bided my time.

One day in a hotel bar I found a drummer killing super fast and technical latin beats while playing so soft you could talk without shouting. And this was a room with tile floors. I ran upstairs to offer to buy my drummer a beer . He had about $80K in debt for his fancy University of Miami music degree, so I stepped on his pride a little. I said, "If he can do it, why can't you?" On that day we made progress.

I hear you. It's all about the attitude.
Both of these guys had strong jazz backgrounds but were slumming with a blues band and i was forever grateful. And i shouldn't be so harsh, they were both super cool, pro in every respect, and both played with several different bands in several different genres. Learned a lot from them.

 

[ColonelZulu]

Because if you lay out for a custom shop P-bass, a Walter Woods head and a Bergie 410, you're going to want to play it and you're not going to want your band mates to push you to play through a PA all the time because it's easier to manage the volume and you don't have any spare dough to get a smaller rig in addition to what you already have.

 

[vonbladet]

EDRUMS NO GOOD! EDRUMS NO NUANCE! YOU NO FIRE ME I QUIT!

 

[MYLOWFREQ]

Drummer's don't like electronic kits, because they sound like . Some good drummers can adjust their dynamics, but you gotta hit the drums with a certain intensity in order to get a certain sound and that means hitting the kit hard sometimes. It's just the nature of the instrument and there's only so much you can do. Playing live music can get loud. That's true especially with certain genres. Show biz it is. Rock.

 

[StayLow]

^ ALL good drummers can adjust their dynamics. Even in death metal.

Not 'some'.

Bassists, guitarists, singers, horns, keys and triangle too.

Don't mean to be pedantic; it's an important and irrefutable distinction.

 

[ItsmeSantiago]

Electronic drums are horrible for the drummer in the long run. Hitting those plastic cymbals is brutal on your wrists. I had to learn to play open handed with a cover band because my right wrist was in so much pain after two sets. They don't play well either. The hoops don't trigger well, so I would program the hoops to the same setting as the pad. It sucks to think you're hitting a 16" tom, but a tambourine comes through if you miss the pad.

Bundle sticks like Hot Rods will solve the issue. Sure, they're expensive, but 18 bucks for a pair of sticks is better than spending a few grand on an adequate electronic kit that doesn't make you feel like a musician. A TD-25 is about as low end as a working pro would want to go, and I think they start out around two grand.

I played them for two years and hated just about everything about it. The only time they were nice was when we booted our drummer and I took over and we practiced with a full band in my apartment, running IEM and AxeFx.

 

[juancaminos]

Mic the drums and run them thru his IEM's. DO IT NOW!

 

[soundsupport1]

I have no idea if there's a US equivalent/US distribution for these, but the first thing I thought of was this German drummaker who's trying to solve the problem:
Invalid Link Removed

This is an issue that mostly comes up in contemporary christian music (ie churches), hence the name/marketing. Quieter acoustic kit sounds like such an obvious idea, I can't believe nobody's thought of it before. Anyone know of other manufacturers offering this?

Cheers,
SoundSupport

EDIT: Just checked the website, they have a distributor/dealer in Guthrie, Oklahoma. Switzerland, the Netherlands and South Korea also have distributors.

 

[HawldieMPB]

Why not just get a DJ? They're even easier to regulate. Playing a keyboard direct to replace bass, guitar, etc would be easier more reliable and feedback free.


Electronic kits are a drag to play and why take away the magic of an acoustic instrument (drums) because it could be abused? An amp can be turned up too loud just as easily. Did I mention electric drums are a drag? An electric kit is not "progress". It's something else entirely. It's a different instrument.

 

[Stumbo]

. Throw up a Plexiglas cage of shame if you must, fire drummers until you find one that plays like you want, but don't make drummers use electronic kits!

^^^This.
Drummer has to play to the room. Just like the rest of us should.

 

[whero]

I don't know... why don't bass players embrace the keyboard player's left hands taking over the bass line more often?

I'm sure there are some fine electronic drum kits around, but I still think the best drum sound comes from a good drummer playing a good drum kit. I've been lucky enough to play with a handful of very good drummers - one of them possibly the best this country ever produced (before he hit the big time and drugs screwed his head). One of the things that set these guys apart was that they knew when to play loud and when to dial it back. If your drummer thinks playing well means s/he has to beat the $#!% out of the kit all the time, your drummer doesn't need a better kit, you need a better drummer.

I've also played with many fine guitarists, some of who liked to crank their amps. Fortunately, I never played with one who wouldn't turn down when asked, although sometimes you had to ask a few times to get them to turn down enough.

I will not play with musicians who use volume as an effect, or to mask a lack of talent, or because they're ignorant of the issues it causes to the band's sound, and hearing. If I keep asking and they don't turn down, it is enough for me to give the rest of the band a "me or him" choice.

Oh, and you need to look after your own hearing, no matter whether the other guys do. Buy proper protection.