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Why don't club drummers embrace electronic kits more often?

My drummer loves his e-kit. We built our live set up around it, and being that e-kits are still not common people are usually into the novelty of seeing the drummer set up with some trigger modules and assorted do-dads. Aside from the perfect panning and volume control these things can be MIDIed to other drum machines. So we'll frequently plug him into my Roland TR-8; now he's able to play kits that sound like 808s or 909s. We can also pipe the output through massive pedalboards and create all kinds of intricate soundscapes. There is so much that can be done with this kind of set up, like OP I'm surprised that they are not more common. It's basically a MIDI controller you play as a drum kit.
 
Did i mention it's impossible to look badass playing an e-kit? "That's cute. He brought his toy drums!"

No need to play plasticky things that look like toilet seats for Darth Vader these days.
There are plenty of e-kits w/real shells available now:

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That said, another vote for cocktail kits - way cool no matter what the volume situation.

GT
 
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E-drums are basically their own instrument compared to acoustic drums and require a drummer who understands that.

I've played with drummers who are good at both and it is a different skill set, many who could only handle the acoustic set, and a very small few who specialized in the e-kit.

Usually the type of bashing drummer that the OP describes isn't in the head space needed to accept the challenge of working with an e-kit and likely doesn't have the chops to use one anyway, it would just be compounding problems plus adding a ton of resentment on both parties on top of it.

Find a drummer that can play dynamically, they are out there, and be done. Then that drummer can choose acoustic or e-kit based on the sound and feel, not as a bandaid to make up for poor musicianship.
 
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As with any guitar modeler that sounds amazing through headphones, but like garbage through a live PA, Electronic drums need a lot of tweaking to sound good live. It can be done, but it takes time and patience. A guitarist I play with uses a Fractal system live and spent hours upon hours renting out a live sound stage on his own dime to dial in his live tones, and it sounds amazing quite frankly.

That being said, as someone who also gigs as a drummer, e drums lack the feel of acoustic drums. Any competent drummer can keep his/her volume at a minimum. Look at the drummer, not the drums
 
I sit here writing this with my ears still ringing from this weekends club gigs. It's due to heavy handed drummers that apparently has only one level of dynamic-loud. And I got to thinking....


First of all, I have had the absolute privilege of playing with outstanding and mind-boggling talented musicians in my life, and I take away from none of those. Many are on signed labels, and some are people we have listened to on the radio of our past and present. I've played huge stages, and tiny dives unfit to sit in. Played pro with all the perks, and as a holiday inn lounge lizard with only a bored bartender and the buffet table as a witness to my agony on a Monday night. That being said, here we go.

I still play at a Reginal level, doing a lot of sub work and working with a few bands. A few bands I work with get the A stages in casinos and the like, but most are in the trenches at clubs. As live music isn't what it used to be, most clubs have smaller stages, lower expected volumes, and less tolerance for stupid.

In one of my main bands, (for three more months) the two primary singers for this 80's rock band are the female front and a male drummer. He is neither amazing on either the drums or vocals, but he gets the job done.

Friday we had a gig in a club where you could just tell it was going to be a lower volume room. The band owns a very capable PA system where I run sound from stage, or we hire foh based on the gig. Friday it was our set up. We use the x-18 system, and after its initially dialed in it doesn't take much to tweak from job to job. I get the eq set, ring out the monitors, then get the band mixed. Everyone runs a wedge except for the drummer, whom runs in ear monitoring. The problem is he is a hard hitter. Like one dynamic.. Loud. The snare sounds like a cannon. The sealed ears he wears compound the issue and he just pounds away. The room was live and I had no control over the drums. At all. The bartenders freak out, saying we are way too loud, so I scramble through the first set, eventually I take everything out of the mix except for a little vocals. The stage has very little stage volume but the drums are so loud we can't even here the vocals due to the tight stage. All it is is drums. I wear ear plugs on most of the shows, but the drummer is mad and hits even harder, where the earplugs aren't even working. I'm angry, and at the point I'm ready to walk. And that's not how I act ever. By the end of the night it's dead, the entire crowd is in the other half of the bar, as it's too much. The drummer and his loud kit single handely killed the gig. If you say anything to him, he pouts and says they shouldn't have live music then. He is a joy to work with.

Yes, it was a lower volume room, but it would have been easily managed if the drummer would have had an electronic kit. It simply would have been a non-issue.

In another project I work with a pro level drummer with a modern electronic kit. In fact the pads go in regular drum shells, and by looking at the kit you would never know they weren't real drums. The cymbals are low volume models as well. He and I run in ear monitoring, and he has an amp he sets up by his drums as well. The only way you can tell a difference is due to the fact an regular acoustic set could never sound as good as his drums do.

There is no mic bleed, no howling feedback on stage, and the levels are down to a respectful level. In short, you can mix the drums into the stage instead of them overpowering everything.

These days with the technology available, why don't more drummers go that route? You don't see full stack Marshalls or multi 810 cabs on stage for smaller gigs, we have evolved. Why do drummers use (and bands members accept) their outdated instruments?

Modern electronic drums are amazing, offer better sounds than acoustics on stage, and are controllable in a mix. With an amp on stage, there is no weak spot. It just works. The modern triggering system is just as sensitive as acoustics according to the drummer. So much of the issues we have during live shows center around the acoustic drums. Why not step into the new century?

Yes I know there are drummers that play acoustics that are very manageable on stages, and yes I know there are shields they can use, but using electronic drums takes all that away, and makes it very easy for the sound engineer to get a great sound.

I know this will be met with skepticism, change often does. I'm not asking for anything but drummers to catch up to the rest of the band as far as technology. My amp has a volume knob. So should the drummer. At the start of the year that band will cease, as the singer and I are working on a new project. Most of the reason stems from the heavy handed drummers that style of music lends itself to. I just won't put up with out of control drummers any more.

I'm curious to get your thoughts on this. Am I out of line, or and I just using common sense where it's not been applied?
Oh Man, I could not agree more! Sure, it would be great if I knew a drummer that understood the concept of dynamics to match the band, but I don't actually know any! All of the drummers that I play with use acoustic drums because "electronic drums suck". But then we have gigs where the PA is set to the level of the acoustic drums (because they're so friggin' loud), and we end up still being too loud for the venue. So then, we're left with our only course of action: telling the drummer to play quieter...which never goes over well. Ever.

Just this past weekend, I played an acoustic gig...and the drummer shows up with a FULL kit! Double-kick pedal, 6 full-size standard cymbals (including 2 China's!), 4 toms, 2 snares (standard and piccolo), electronic triggers for his favorite sound effects (train whistles, Harley engines, etc.), cowbell, etc. Multiple times during the performance, I had to tell him to play quieter, and I could tell he was getting irritated about it. I expected him to show up with a cajon, tambourine, washboard, and maybe a snare (with brushes). But instead, I got Neil Peart. :banghead: We've been playing with this drummer for a couple years, and it started off perfect. But as time went on, his "small" kit just keeps growing. And now, I get to decide whether to be the a-hole and just flat-out tell him what equipment to bring, or fire him. I wish I didn't have to do either, but he's just not seeing the consequences of his actions.

For the full-on rock gigs, I agree that I really wish drummers would use electronic drums for the smaller gigs. The cheaper sets may not sound as good or feel as good, but it would still be better than being too loud for the room IMHO.
 
Playing an electronic kit has an entirely different feel. It's certainly a convenience for the band and sound man, no doubt, but imagine your band telling you that you should play an instrument that feels a lot different than what you're used to and prefer simply because it's easier for the band. I've done it without much hassle, but not everyone will be so easy going.

I also have an electronic kit with normal drum heads. The cheaper kits with plastic pads feel awful in my opinion, but even a kit like mine ,where it's designed to emulate the feel of a real kit, still falls very short of the feeling of playing acoustic drums.
 
As a drummer first, and a bassist second, I completely agree with this statement/rant.

I have played both live and there isn't enough of a difference in feel to make an argument on it taking away from a drummer's playing style. As long as you are using a respectable setup.

The only skepticism I had ever met while using an electric kit (Yamaha DTX with high end pads/triggers) was from the crowds. A lot of people can actually get turned off by the sight of one of these weird things vs. what they're used to. I suppose its the same as someone seeing a little Neo cab vs. a big 810 that have seen for years.

That being said, most people change their minds as soon as they HEAR the difference, so it really isn't that big of a deal.

IMHO I agree that more drummers (who can't control their dynamics) should make the switch. It's an investment, for sure, but it's always worth it in the end.
 
The band I play in now started with acoustic drums, but our drummer bought electronic drums. His first set was a basic set but still sounded good. He bought a better set about a year ago and they sound fantastic. I use in-ear monitors so my feed is based on what I want to hear. The others are using wedges so their hearing experience can vary a little. I also played with another drummer several years ago that used electronic drums when the technology was fairly new. They sounded pretty good, but the cymbals were awful. I think the newer ones are much better. I will mention that I recently went to GC and walked into the drum room and noticed they had cymbals with lots of holes in them. I think they were called practice cymbals. If a drummer only wants to play acoustic drums maybe use rubber "deadening" pads on the drums and these type of cymbals for smaller rooms. That said, I didn't see the price of the cymbals. Just my two cents worth!!!
 
Drummer in my former classic/modern rock cover band used a Roland Kit. I loved it for volume control and ease of setup & soundcheck. Some kits sounded quite like real acoustic drums. The problem was that the drummer wanted to change the voice of the kit for EVERY song, but he did not have the relative volumes of each kit consistently dialed in. So for example, on one song the kick could be booming, and then on the next you could barely hear it. I'd say the the e-kits are a good tool if you take the time to set them up properly and not try to over-complicate things.
 
Those of you claiming that electronic drums don't sound authentic might not have heard one since the Simmons kits in the 80s (which were really cool BTW).

If you listen to the radio, and perhaps sadly, 85% or more of the drum sounds you hear are synthetic, including the cymbals. They sound much more convincing now.

I suspect cost and circumstance are the two key issues:

Cost, obviously, as good electronic kits are still expensive and drummers might not think they will use them often enough to rationalize.

Circumstance, as you almost have to be running a full IEM system for the whole band for it to really work. Which some groups are and some aren't. I don't think it's nearly as effective to try to run an electronic kit through an amp or monitors as stage volume.
 
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sticks.jpg

I hear what you're saying.. I'm wondering - as a non-drummer - if these things actually work.. If they DO, our drummer is getting some for his upcoming birthday ;)

I've played with a fantastic drummer who can play with the same intensity at different volumes, then I've played with a drummer who's in itself a good drummer, apart from the volume-thing. It's the only "acoustic" thing in our band, so hard to regulate, esp for late-night outdoor gigs a bit of a challenge. If he has these sticks, would he still be able to beat the snot out of his skins, just producing lower volume??

Regards
Mark
 
I too, have a rather loud drummer who struggles with dynamics and I had bought him a lower level Roland. The argument against it from other members of my band were the as others have said - aesthetically, they give off the wrong vibe, and they don't play like real drums. I still like the idea, but we have him playing a smaller set and it seems to be okay.

I've played with a V-drum kit once live and I personally loved it as far as sound went - we could all hear each other and the dynamics didn't suffer. I recorded an album where the drummer played V-Drums and the sound was pretty good and this was 2008.