Why don't the big boys make good cabs?

[cheapbasslovin]

Spite, malice, and... economies of scale are useless if nobody buys it anyway.

The niche you are looking for is already filled by the people you mentioned. If the market were desperate for more entries they would be filled.

 

[dheafey]

Money.

It all comes down to what they think they can sell, how much it costs to develop and build, and what their return is. Demand is what drives supply.

+1

The Big Boys are just like any other company in the corporate world. They need to design, test, and manufacturer products that sell. And if you can't turn a profit at it, you will cease to exist. REVENUE (money coming in) - EXPENSES (money going out) = NET PROFIT. It's a battle to maximize REVENUE (charge more, increase volume) while reducing EXPENSES (cheaper components, cheaper sources, efficient manufacturing). Cheap out on a component and you could jeopardize quality, impacting revenues. On the other hand, manufacturing product that is expensive (complex build process, high priced components) will eat away at your revenue.

As an example, in the DIY world (Greenboy, Bill Fitzmaurice, etc...) you have several choices to make for your design: 2 way, 3 way, mid driver, tweeter, 2x12, 2x15, etc... You probably KNOW what you want and what your budget is, therefore making more informed choices. (Ok, maybe not everyone. ;-)) A corporation has to make all these decisions without really knowing 100%. Hopefully they've done some market research and don't charge in blindly. Therefore, they will tool up and build what has the best chance of maximizing their profit.

In my opinion, this is one of the reasons you see more 2 way designs on the market than 3 way. There doesn't seem to be a huge outcry for 3 ways and the 2 ways are just cheaper to make (fewer drivers and far simpler xovers in most cases).

 

[Ewo]

Free markets are complex ecosystems, I figure, so the various suppliers of a given commodity tend to establish niches for themselves suited to their cost structures and their sales aspirations.

I wouldn't expect to see the mass-market suppliers doing the exotic stuff. That niche belongs to the boutique builders.

(Got a real nice 4 ohm boutique cab for sale, BTW. Link's in my sig, below.)


Added: Even though I've been using boutique cabs of various flavors for the past couple years, I think a lot of the mass-market cabs can sound quite good and definitely meet the needs of a large number of bassists. I don't think every bassist needs a cutting-edge cab to get the job done, by any means.

 

[TripleDouble]

Poorly worded thread title perhaps...and +1 on Mesa should not be on this list. They're kind of the original forward thinking boutique company, they started out gutting and making fender Princetons into little monsters in the 60s and grew from there...and the Walkabout is no slouch when it comes to innovation and efficiency. And it sounds awesome and unique, in a sea of Class D similarity...

As far as fender goes, maybe they're too busy with marketing and pimping new color and finish choices these days to be cooking up (or stealing) new ideas? Though the Dimension seems pretty cool, but generally why worry about all that R'n'D to sell a few cabs when you can sell 35,000 Squiers instead for a billion more dollars?

 

[lfmn16]

Though the Dimension seems pretty cool, but generally why worry about all that R'n'D to sell a few cabs when you can sell 35,000 Squiers instead for a billion more dollars?

At $300 per Squier, that's $10.5 million and that's not anywhere near what Fender sells them for.

Besides, they way big business often ***** everything up, high quality and high tech are often best left to small, nimble companies.

 

[wisconsindead]

I think many people out there don't realize what they have can actually be significantly improved upon. How can you know how poopy something is without knowing how much better it can be? Ignorance allows for being content. I'm not trying to say that typical bass players don't know anything about their gear but I'm sure if I played a nicer/more capable rig the satisfaction in my own rig would decrease.

 

[Passinwind]

Why don't the big boys make good cabs?

Because there are no big boys in the bass industry? Link Removed

 

[socialleper]

+1

TB is kind of a bubble and when you talk to people outside of this group you are reminded how little most people generally care about a host of issues that get hotly debated here.

This plus a million!! There is so much gear that people talk about here that simply doesn't exist in the wild. I have NEVER seen a fEARful bass cab in the real world. 50% of the basses mentioned here never pop up outside of TB, and that goes even more so for pedals.
In the circles I play in my Genz Benz 9.0 and GK Neo 1x12 cabs are super exotic. Most metal players in clubs have never seen 1x12 cabs stacked vertically before and I never would have though of going that route if not for TB.
So to answer the OPs question, its because no one really knows Berg, Avatar, fEARful, etc even exists outside of TB. They buy the "big boys" traditional styles because that's what they can easily find. To a lot of bass players in the world an Amgeg SVT tube head and 8x10 cab is as exotic as it gets.
If they are guitarists playing bass its even worse since guitar players have been using the same basic designs for their equipment for 40+ years.

 

[JimmyM]

I think many people out there don't realize what they have can actually be significantly improved upon. How can you know how poopy something is without knowing how much better it can be? Ignorance allows for being content. I'm not trying to say that typical bass players don't know anything about their gear but I'm sure if I played a nicer/more capable rig the satisfaction in my own rig would decrease.

Yeah, we're all stupid. Seriously, everyone's heard bass through a good PA before so if you have, you kind of know what you get with a 3-way.

BTW, I will remind folks that 3-way systems for bass are nothing new. I've seen them since the 70's.

 

[CL400Peavey]

Because there are no big boys in the bass industry? Link Removed

This is also very true. If you look at global bass equipment sales versus any other instrument, we are probably well behind even drummers in total $$$ spent.

 

[guy n. cognito]

To this day, I've never seen a "good cab" in the wild......other than my own. Those that see mine are more impressed with the outstanding tweed job than the tone or speaker configuration.

That said, I don't even gig that cab anymore.

 

[Michedelic]

Poorly worded thread title perhaps...and +1 on Mesa should not be on this list. They're kind of the original forward thinking boutique company, they started out gutting and making fender Princetons into little monsters in the 60s and grew from there...and the Walkabout is no slouch when it comes to innovation and efficiency. And it sounds awesome and unique, in a sea of Class D similarity...

As far as fender goes, maybe they're too busy with marketing and pimping new color and finish choices these days to be cooking up (or stealing) new ideas? Though the Dimension seems pretty cool, but generally why worry about all that R'n'D to sell a few cabs when you can sell 35,000 Squiers instead for a billion more dollars?

Fender is too busy buying up smaller, innovative companies that may be floundering a bit(or HAD their moment in the sun), making them disappear(but not before gutting out patents and features and MAYBE applying them to their own brand)or else trading on the heritage of those companies/brands to sell gear that is a step down what was previously available.

 

[winegamd]

It also comes down to people wanting to imitate their idols. If you are looking for a certain sound, it is easier to buy the gear that makes that sound in the first place. Players are also not used to hearing bass reproduced full spectrum. Most classic bass recordings are with miked cabs, and they were not full range. Those that did plug in direct, with the state of the art in AM radio at the time, most players grew up listening to bass reproduced through 4" paper speakers in a car or in their little radio. HiFi didnt really take off until the 70's, and even then it was not too common. So, the "fEARful sound" is just not a traditional sound that people are used too for bass. I mean look at the guitar industry. They STILL play 60 year old technology because they are imitating known styles and tones.

 

[kcole4001]

For all the attention that fearful and the like get here, that still accounts for likely only a few hundred cabs in existence.
Even if you multiply by 5 to extrapolate potential mass market sales, that's probably not enough to make the effort worthwhile.

 

[Michedelic]

If you were to go into a variety of Guitar Centers on a Saturday afternoon, went up to the slap army and took a poll on what they thought of, and what would they want from, a cab manufactured by(insert name of your favorite booteek company here), what kind of response do you think you'd get(besides, "get away from me, you old creep")? Probably a lot of blank stares. Their priorities are: how loud does this get, how cheap is it, and is this used by anybody cool?

 

[wisconsindead]

Yeah, we're all stupid. Seriously, everyone's heard bass through a good PA before so if you have, you kind of know what you get with a 3-way.

BTW, I will remind folks that 3-way systems for bass are nothing new. I've seen them since the 70's.

I guess my post was mistaken as an advertisement for greenboy. Not so. This applies to all other things. Not just cabs. Just a comment on how you can be content with what you currently have when in fact you could be happier if you played a different bass, strings, amp etc.

 

[TripleDouble]

Fender is too busy buying up smaller, innovative companies that may be floundering a bit(or HAD their moment in the sun), making them disappear(but not before gutting out patents and features and MAYBE applying them to their own brand)or else trading on the heritage of those companies/brands to sell gear that is a step down what was previously available.

Well said, and I must agree. There was another thread bashing Fender and the "Design Experience" lately, and was thinking how great it would have been if all the money and time spent making that dumb approach to buying an instrument was put in to making cool innovative stuff for MAKING MUSIC (like more modern cab designs). I've been playing for decades, and always have been a "fender guy", but they're losing me and thankfully I have all the gear I need. I can only imagine a bunch of techies and marketing people in a room saying crap like "The future of music instrument sales is in customization and streamlining the user experience to best cater to the individuals' perceived needs and consumer's modern expectation of a unique choice...". LAAAAAME. We got enough P basses already. How about a P bass with stealth touch screen MIDI triggers or an onboard looper, or something new and inspiring? They've certainly got the big $$$ to fuel big ideas. But Fender is a giant now that needs to sustain it's giantness and probably just wants to make a craptonne of money.

Actually, I'll skip the long rant and just borrow my friend Mike's line with "Corporatism ruins capitalism once again".

 

[rodl2005]

Well said, and I must agree. There was another thread bashing Fender and the "Design Experience" lately, and was thinking how great it would have been if all the money and time spent making that dumb approach to buying an instrument was put in to making cool innovative stuff for MAKING MUSIC (like more modern cab designs). I've been playing for decades, and always have been a "fender guy", but they're losing me and thankfully I have all the gear I need. I can only imagine a bunch of techies and marketing people in a room saying crap like "The future of music instrument sales is in customization and streamlining the user experience to best cater to the individuals' perceived needs and consumer's modern expectation of a unique choice...". LAAAAAME. We got enough P basses already. How about a P bass with stealth touch screen MIDI triggers or an onboard looper, or something new and inspiring? They've certainly got the big $$$ to fuel big ideas. But Fender is a giant now that needs to sustain it's giantness and probably just wants to make a craptonne of money.

Actually, I'll skip the long rant and just borrow my friend Mike's line with "Corporatism ruins capitalism once again".

Well, I'll say again...Each to his own. I've recently come BACK to Fender. I used a Bassman 100 back in the day and after went with other amps and cabs. But since the Super Bassman and the Bassman Pro series cabs cane out,I'm back with em.

 

[JimmyM]

Threads like this are great because you see why these people aren't running major MI companies. It's real easy to say all this stuff when it's not your money on the line.

 

[Passinwind]

Threads like this are great because you see why these people aren't running major MI companies. It's real easy to say all this stuff when it's not your money on the line.

Say what? Isn't it obvious that the real money's in hand built uprights and 'lectric BGs and amps are just a fad?