Why go Mac?

[iamlowsound]

To the majority of the posters: get your own damn thread. I asked nicely for you guys to avoid this discussion so I could get some of my questions answered. You obliged for, like, 18 hours. Thanks...I guess.

In the meantime, any other words out there regarding Keynote vs. Powerpoint? I am going back and forth on whether or not to get one, so some professional advice would be nice, and not just "Macs are for hippies" and "PC's suck".

Thanks...

Keynote is fine if you are not going to have to worry about ever using one of your presentations on a different computer. Otherwise I would go with office. I might even have a copy of 2006 that I can send off to you, PM me if you are interested.

lowsound

 

[XavidmanX]

18 hours on topic? That has to be some kind of TalkBass.com record.

- Dave

Do we get a prize for that?

In retrospect, you all exhibited a ton of self restraint. Good job.

(In my best Borat voice): NOT!!

 

[Tsal]

I think you get a trial version of the iWork with the Mac, if you don't like it you can always get Office.

 

[CBRStingray]

I agree with that, but I don't think that is true on the amateur level. I Movie, I DVD, Garage Band, I Photo and I-Tunes are so seamless intergraded that it makes all of the above easy enough that kids can be making professional recordings, movies etc with in an hour. I don't see that on a PC???

I Movie is just drag & drop, it can't get any easier, want songs, just click media and it opens your Garage Band & I tunes libraries. Want to add pictures, just click on add photos and your whole photo library is there. What PC program does this?

I can't say that about using pro programs like Avid, Pro Tools & Final Cut for Mac Or PC where they are equally hard/complicated.

That's the difference between Macs & PC to me

That's a good point. I'm not super familiar with the entry level/amateur video creation/editing software for PC. I do know that there are LOADS of affordable programs available that will do everything that iMovie and iDVD will do, and much more. But personally I haven't used them so I can't comment on their functionality or their integration.

 

[CBRStingray]

That's my point - what FUNCTIONALITY does PSProX2 provide that isn't in all the other paint packages?

You can choose between 10 paint packages on the PC, but that functionality is the same as you get in the 3 or 4 good packages that run on the Mac.

More choice does not mean better, unless those choices each add something.

Ian

PSProX2 will do everything that any image editor can do (it's not actually a paint program, it's a photo editor).

The fact is, Mac has fewer options. In your opinion those options may be better (not in mine), but they don't provide any more functionality than any of the good options for PC. And there are far more options for the PC.

3 or 4 is not a very accurate estimate either. It's usually only 1 or 2 apps you can choose between on a Mac.

 

[Eublet]

Okay, so back on topic.

Keynot is sleaker in appearance, and might be less daunting. The built-in templates are nicer than what is builtin with Powerpoint, but there is 10000x the number of Powerpoint templates available for download.

You'll have much greater ability to share powerpoint files than keynote.

Powerpoint is the standard. It's entrenched in this area, and will never go away.

 

[scottice]

Can Keynote files be exported to work in PP and visa versa?

I have yet to try Keynote... but I used to use PP and really didn't like it that much. It seemed difficult to use... but I guess that would be the experience of any noob user to a new program.

That being said... I have messed around with iMovie and the .mac web page builder in the few days I've owned this black MacBook and I love the simplicity of it all. I think once the iPod and iPhone bring more Mac users the word will spread fast.

 

[IanStephenson]

Can Keynote files be exported to work in PP and visa versa?

Yes, though I've never actually needed to - I present my presentations.

You can also export as flash, html, pdf, quicktime etc etc.

Keynote is really nice. When you run it on a laptop you get the slide displayed on the external display, while the laptop displays the current and NEXT slide, so you can see whats going to appear when you press the button. It also displays the elapsed and current time. It works with the Apple remote too, so you can wander around and just press the button to advance.

Ian

 

[fdeck]

Here's my view. The most important thing is which "industry" you are involved with. I am an engineer by day, and tinker with electronics and computer hardware / software by night. Windows dominates the engineering world in the same way that Mac dominates the visual arts. If you are not tied to an industry in this way, your choices open up.

I also think that the OS doesn't matter very much any more. My interaction with the OS is minimal. I use it for arranging files, choosing which program to start, and copying stuff from one document to another. Of course the application software interacts with the OS, but that's invisible to me, may even be fairly consistent between platforms. As I type this, Mozilla Firefox is occupying my entire screen. That's the "platform" I am using right now.

For general-purpose software, I use a couple programs that I bought long ago (Office 97 and Visual Basic 5), but otherwise, it's all free stuff that runs on multiple platforms. As for presentations, I have to admit that I agree with Edward Tufte:

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Most presentations aren't worth presenting. But they can be shared as PDF's.

For hardware / software design, I am committed to Windows. I did that stuff on the Mac in the 90's, and it was an unpleasant chore. Besides, I don't know any Mac users who care about DIY hardware, so it just doesn't matter.

About reliability, I think it is difficult to gauge because it depends so much on the environment. A recording studio is a tame environment compared to a multi billion dollar company with centrally managed computers and large scale back office software running off a server in another state. Also, some people have more difficulty with computers, and complain more. In the 90's, the guy who tried to fix my Mac from crashing every 10 minutes said to me: "Think how much worse it would be if we were running Windows."

 

[Dave Grossman]

As for presentations, I have to admit that I agree with Edward Tufte:

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Most presentations aren't worth presenting. But they can be shared as PDF's.

Tufte is a douchebag and the worst kind of Mac fanboy. Anybody nutty enough to continually try to convince the public that the Columbia shuttle disaster was caused by PowerPoint needs psychiatric help.

- Dave

 

[fdeck]

Tufte is a douchebag and the worst kind of Mac fanboy. Anybody nutty enough to continually try to convince the public that the Columbia shuttle disaster was caused by PowerPoint needs psychiatric help.

- Dave

Yeah, good call. I guess he's one of those guys who has contributed some valuable ideas, whereupon he imagines himself to be the Messiah. Like Steve Jobs.

Amusingly, the time when I went and saw Tufte was also when I was a Mac fanboy.

 

[Dave Grossman]

Yeah, good call. I guess he's one of those guys who has contributed some valuable ideas, whereupon he imagines himself to be the Messiah. Like Steve Jobs.

Amusingly, the time when I went and saw Tufte was also when I was a Mac fanboy.

Perhaps I was a little harsh with him but I went to one of his seminars and he spent more time on the Columbia disaster than many other topics and spewed anti-Microsoft crap throughout. While many of his ideas are very good and useful, many are not so good. I wanted to walk out of his seminar but I was there as part of my job so I stayed. It was a negative experience overall.

- Dave

 

[fdeck]

Perhaps I was a little harsh with him but I went to one of his seminars and he spent more time on the Columbia disaster than many other topics and spewed anti-Microsoft crap throughout. While many of his ideas are very good and useful, many are not so good. I wanted to walk out of his seminar but I was there as part of my job so I stayed. It was a negative experience overall.

- Dave

I saw him sometime in the mid-90's. Maybe he got it in his head that he was going to be the Richard Feynman of the Columbia investigation.

I had my employer send me, because I had a really nasty user interface problem that I was trying to solve, to display everything all at once for a rather complex process control system, on an IBM ThinkPad, for unskilled factory workers to make sense of. Some of his ideas helped me.

 

[XavidmanX]

Well, I'm not too sure what's up with that Tufte guy, but he's both on the mark and off.

I skimmed his work...I agree that slideshow software is used to blandly present text that could be simply included in a handout to go along with a slideshow presentation that includes rich information such as videos, photos, etc.

As a teacher I try to stay away from using PPT as a virtual, infinite whiteboard space and more as a means to display information to my students that gets them thinking. I've heard somewhere before that if I can get the whole focus of your presentation from reading your slides then you've included too much text.

Anyway, I'm working on it...I like the idea of sending my slides to my ipod and using that to get untethered from my computer screen when presenting to my students or to large groups.

Slideshow presentations need to get you thinking, not reading, IMHO.

 

[Sir Edward V]

Besides, I don't know any Mac users who care about DIY hardware, so it just doesn't matter.

Hello

I am in school for Computer Engineering and started getting involved with DIY Hardware: mainly effects pedals, but I am expanding my thoughts... I love my mac, but for most engineering purposes, I have to use Windows because they just don't make all the programs I need for mac systems.

Mac OS does have a better CLI than windows though

 

[Dave Grossman]

I skimmed his work...I agree that slideshow software is used to blandly present text that could be simply included in a handout to go along with a slideshow presentation that includes rich information such as videos, photos, etc.

One of the Tufte-isms that I most strongly disagreed with was his insistance that you give people handouts before the presentation. I guarantee you that if you do this, the audience will be flipping through the handout instead of paying attention.

Also, he seemed to think that one should cram as much data into a single chart as possible. That's why paper is so much better than a monitor; because it is much higher resolution. You can get more data on it.

The whole "spark lines" thing seems blown way out of proportion. Which, is one of it's major flaws, literally, I mean. No need to go into that though.

Much of what he has to say and has done is excellent, of course. He would have done better to not pimp for Apple and stick to his real strengths.

- Dave

 

[Eublet]

Mac OS does have a better CLI than windows though

All that is changing with Windows PowerShell. Everything MS releases in the future will just be a GUI that manipulates PowerShell commands. You can already download PS for Vista, XP and Server 2003. It comes included in Server 2008, and it is flat out awesome. While the Unix CLI will be around for a long time, the PowerShell is more compreshensive I think. You should check it out and get to know it!

 

[fdeck]

All that is changing with Windows PowerShell. Everything MS releases in the future will just be a GUI that manipulates PowerShell commands. You can already download PS for Vista, XP and Server 2003. It comes included in Server 2008, and it is flat out awesome. While the Unix CLI will be around for a long time, the PowerShell is more compreshensive I think. You should check it out and get to know it!

DOS lives!

 

[fdeck]

My gripe with PPT presentations has to do with butchering complex information to make it fit on a slide.

 

[Eublet]

DOS lives!

haha. Not really though. DOS was an OS. This is a true scripting shell with modules that plugin depending on what's installed. For example, loading Windows 2008 gives you commands central to 2008. Install Exchange 2007 and it adds the Exchange PS commands.

A lot of the DOS commands have made it into PS just because so many people know them, but that's not really what PS is.