Why have a nice rig just to be run direct?

[Downunderwonder]

A cloud mic mount and a p2 with a well practiced setup has no valid objection from anyone in camp DI.

 

[JimmyM]

It wasn't the valid objections that did me in for micing.

 

[bigchiefbc]

I really can't imagine a soundman would suggest plugging the bass directly into a DI if he sees I use a pedal board, it has anyway never happened to me ...

I have also several times suggested we move the DI line from the house amp or DI to my pedalboard, or use the DI in my amp rather than the house DI, and I have never gotten a refusal or heard that there was any problem with dialing in a workable sound.

You have to wonder how often these problems really happen, maybe I'm lucky or maybe I approach sound guys differently, but I wonder if not some of these stories are hyperbole much in the same way "guitards" are almost universally pictured as bad guys here on TB. It smells a bit like us against them really.

I'm not engaging in hyperbole. It's happened to me more than once. I'd had sound guys tell me that bass shouldn't have effects, PERIOD. I've had them tell me that a fuzz pedal will shred his drivers. I've had them tell me that bass shouldn't be distorted. Most of those guys eventually backed off after I made it plain that effects, distortion and fuzz are very important to me and I'm not going to unplug them.

But I have had a few guys absolutely refuse to let me mic my cabinet and insist on a DI. My amp doesn't have a post-power-amp DI, so I had a bone-dry bass tone that whole night, which I really don't like. I thought it sounded awful, and I had a couple people who'd seen us before tell me the same.

 

[FretNoMore]

I would then have to say those soundguys aren't. Soundguys, that is.

 

[jimfist]

without reading through 20 pages, in response to the OP, this thread should be re-titled "why go through the trouble of having a wonderful sounding bass and rig, if you're not going to invest in a great sounding DI?"

yep...in a nutshell. JMHO...is it not a valid point of discussion that concerned amateur and pro bassists alike should broaden their knowledge base (and thus their standard available equipment) to include the various technological advances in direct feeds to a console, in addition to or instead of mic'ing or "straight" unfiltered DI ? Ditto for sound techs/engineers/mixers.

It's not that I disagree with the sentiment that a bassist should have his cab mic'ed if he desires (agreed), but when the proverbial irresistable force meets the immovable object, usually someone wins and someone loses, which is never a good thing, especially if you find you lose more than you win. Having a DI option that accurately represents the tone of your mic'd bass cab is the "everyone wins" solution. I wouldn't propose this if not for the fact that there are worthy options available....now...in 2014. Again, JMHO.

 

[Korladis]

I'm not engaging in hyperbole. It's happened to me more than once. I'd had sound guys tell me that bass shouldn't have effects, PERIOD. I've had them tell me that a fuzz pedal will shred his drivers. I've had them tell me that bass shouldn't be distorted. Most of those guys eventually backed off after I made it plain that effects, distortion and fuzz are very important to me and I'm not going to unplug them.

But I have had a few guys absolutely refuse to let me mic my cabinet and insist on a DI. My amp doesn't have a post-power-amp DI, so I had a bone-dry bass tone that whole night, which I really don't like. I thought it sounded awful, and I had a couple people who'd seen us before tell me the same.

Yep. I've had some pretty good soundguys, too. Some know the limits of their PA, and what works in their room, and occasionally these ones have just had the drums and vocals (and, on occasion, keys) in the PA, with guitars and bass just relying on amp volume. Some have been quite willing to mic cabs, or to use the DI on the back of my head.

Others have tried to insist on a pre-anything DI from my bass, and then get mad at me when they have to constantly be adjusting the gain at the board because I'm clipping their pres, since in many songs I play harder for more overdrive in some parts, and more gently for less drive in other parts.

I don't really see what's so hard about sticking a mic in front of my cab. They do it all the time for guitars. They should just pretend it's another guitar rig if it makes them feel any better.

 

[Korladis]

I completely agree and couldn't feel more passionately about either, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. I won't get into my opinion of the general work ethics of most, but will say once the gig is over, it's too late to find out from your wife or friends that you just got hosed by someone that should not be allowed behind a board.

I've been on both sides of the mains plenty and have ALWAYS tried to cater to the bands wishes as best as possible. It is , after all, their set not mine. They now their sound way better than I do and with ALL of that, I still will have my own preferences for the mix because it is my job at the board to make it sound as good as it can.

Some sound guys just nail and are worth their weight in gold making the whole experience that much sweeter.

A buddy of mine who runs sound sometimes at a local venue views his job as making the band sound like themselves, but filling the room, and adjusting for the particular acoustics of said room. If they're good, they sound good, and if they suck, they suck, and no amount of knob twiddling is going to fix that, in the latter case.

 

[Downunderwonder]

Yep. I've had some pretty good soundguys, too. Some know the limits of their PA, and what works in their room, and occasionally these ones have just had the drums and vocals (and, on occasion, keys) in the PA, with guitars and bass just relying on amp volume. Some have been quite willing to mic cabs, or to use the DI on the back of my head.

Others have tried to insist on a pre-anything DI from my bass, and then get mad at me when they have to constantly be adjusting the gain at the board because I'm clipping their pres, since in many songs I play harder for more overdrive in some parts, and more gently for less drive in other parts.

I don't really see what's so hard about sticking a mic in front of my cab. They do it all the time for guitars. They should just pretend it's another guitar rig if it makes them feel any better.

Dynamic range of bass is worthy of another thread.

 

[bigchiefbc]

A buddy of mine who runs sound sometimes at a local venue views his job as making the band sound like themselves, but filling the room, and adjusting for the particular acoustics of said room. If they're good, they sound good, and if they suck, they suck, and no amount of knob twiddling is going to fix that, in the latter case.

That's really all I'm looking for. Just mic my cab, and do your normal FOH thing. My bass is usually overdriven enough that anyone who knows anything about music is going to know that it's coming from me, not the PA. If someone in the audience thinks it sounds like crap, it's me who will deal with it, not the soundguy.

 

[JimmyM]

Dynamic range of bass is worthy of another thread.

I used to like compressors but I don't anymore. However, I know that they're often in use on my signal. I don't mind that so much unless they squash me and make my bass sound like dirty shoes in wet sneakers.

 

[Korladis]

I used to like compressors but I don't anymore. However, I know that they're often in use on my signal. I don't mind that so much unless they squash me and make my bass sound like dirty shoes in wet sneakers.

My amp's overdriven-ness basically functions as my compressor. If I play really hard, it's more overdriven, and if I play with a lighter touch, it's less overdriven. This works for me, as there is still some actual dynamic range, but not as much as it somewhat sounds like there is. Especially as after a certain point it just gets more distorted, not really much louder.

 

[Downunderwonder]

That tallies with my d180, so your soundguys are failing to soundcheck you properly if you clip the desk.

 

[Korladis]

That tallies with my d180, so your soundguys are failing to soundcheck you properly if you clip the desk.

Soundguys who insist on DIing straight from the bass when you roll up with an old tube amp being less than competent at soundcheck? Who would have guessed?

 

[JimmyM]

Oops, meant "dirty feet in wet sneakers"

And yep, if you clip the board, that isn't your fault.

 

[Neener]

If I were a new aspiring bass player wishing to become a serious gigging musician, reading this thread would quite possibly having me reconsidering my ambitions.

Maybe take up something easier and less stressful... like politics... or golf. :scowl:

But I'm not, so I won't.

Carry on

 

[modulusman]

Oops, meant "dirty feet in wet sneakers"

And yep, if you clip the board, that isn't your fault.[/QUOTE]

Unless your one of those bass players that intentionally plays soft during soundcheck. Of course that never happens.

 

[kirkm24]

In most venues these days, your amp is basically a monitor (I usually don't even use an amp at all anymore). We really should be more conscientious of the house sound and less concerned about the stage sound. This is why I bought a REDDI. It was worth the investment to me because it was an investment in the sound that would actually be heard by the audience. For the rare occasion I use an amp, I have a Markbass combo that works fine and sounds find but I have no need for a full rig anymore. I'd say it would do most players good to invest in gear for the FOH and get a good pair of in-ear monitors. This will be a better investment that buying high end boutique amps and cabs but this is only my opinion.

 

[Korladis]

Oops, meant "dirty feet in wet sneakers"

And yep, if you clip the board, that isn't your fault.

Unless your one of those bass players that intentionally plays soft during soundcheck. Of course that never happens.

If you get a soundcheck.

 

[jimfist]

If you get a soundcheck.

+1

 

[bigchiefbc]

In most venues these days, your amp is basically a monitor (I usually don't even use an amp at all anymore). We really should be more conscientious of the house sound and less concerned about the stage sound. This is why I bought a REDDI. It was worth the investment to me because it was an investment in the sound that would actually be heard by the audience. For the rare occasion I use an amp, I have a Markbass combo that works fine and sounds find but I have no need for a full rig anymore. I'd say it would do most players good to invest in gear for the FOH and get a good pair of in-ear monitors. This will be a better investment that buying high end boutique amps and cabs but this is only my opinion.

I haven't yet found a DI that can nail the sound I get out of my amp overdriving. If I did, I'd certainly consider it. The closest thing I could think of that might do it would be the Tech 21 British pedal, followed by a plain DI.