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Why I NEVER Vent On Here About Band Problems

#121
dramatwist said:
...saw The Who back in the 1970s on the "Quadrophenia" tour at the Cow Palace in San Francisco. A while into the show, Keith Moon collapsed, completely blacked out on his drum riser, due to a bad combination of drink and drugs (reportedly.) This happened twice. After the second time, Pete Townshend asked if there was anyone in the audience who could take over the drums for a bit. Some kid (Luke Halprin, I think was his name) made his way to the stage, sat down at Keith's kit and actually sounded pretty damn good. Keith recovered, and finished the show.

Did The Who fire Keith?
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Yep. Eventually. There may have been other circumstances that led to his inability to play as well.
 
#127
JimmyM said:
Oh, don't get me wrong...I enjoy those posts, too :D But I've seen it lead to bad things. And what I don't enjoy is people giving horribly bad advice. Not everyone knows good advice from bad. Add that to a goodly amount of advice playing to an inexperienced player's ego rather than being what they need to hear, and once they get bad advice that reinforces their thoughts, they're not going to care about the 100 posts saying otherwise.

OTOH, I guess that's not my problem, nor should I care. They're going to make their own mistakes anyway. Still, I try to help. If it falls on deaf ears, so be it.
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I think most of the people posting band problems already know what to do and don't really need advice … it is more venting

There do seem to be recurring problems with bands …

Like

people playing too loud
substance abuse
flacky people
lack of good pay
lack of good venues
stage fright
stage boredom
pay to play
girlfriend singer or manager
alcohol

and what's the best bass for metal
 
#128
Hey @JimmyM , good post. Lots of good points in it.
A few comments, just to clarify things...

Example 2 concerns a new bassist in a band of older players who's upset about the lead singer, who's usually been great, but who had too much to drink one night and got a little sloppy in a band where apparently everyone drinks on gigs but usually holds it together pretty well.
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I am the junior member of the band, but have been playing with them for well over 3 years now, so not sure if that still makes me new... ;)

LS is usually good, I wouldn't (and didn't) describe him as great.

Again, a few reasonable replies, but mostly a bunch of crap and nonsense about how this singer is a raging alcoholic, the bass player needs to confront him about it, and let him know that it's unacceptable. And in fine Talkbass tradition, there were a few replies that they need to fire the guy no questions asked.
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Agreed. I knew I would get too many of those kinds of responses, but I'm good at separating the wheat from the chaff...

First, the only thing anyone knows about this singer is what the new guy told us, which could be accurate or a gross misrepresentation of the facts and none of you would know the difference. The fact that so many people have diagnosed him as an alcoholic based on the bassist's OP makes me sick to my stomach, and it borders on libel. The OP needs to be extremely concerned about these comments adding up to libel, and he really needs to worry about it getting back to the rest of the band.
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The vagaries of the internet... For all anyone knows I could be working in a Russian troll farm... lol...
nyet... ;)
Agreed, and sage advice. I am pretty anonymous here, now... When I first starting posting on here, I wasn't, so changed my profile a while ago, but your advice is still solid. I really don't think that anything I said is libelous, so I'm confident in standing behind my statements, and if they get back to the LS and they kick me out of the band, that's not the end of the world. I meant what I said... What others say may or may not be libelous, but that is out of my control...

Second, the OP has said that the singer usually does a great job, but slipped this one night out of I don't know how many gigs they've done already, and didn't really start showing signs of slipping until later in the evening. The bar owner and staff were happy, the rest of the band didn't comment negatively about it, and the only one who seems unhappy is the OP, why may be justified in a little concern about a possible red flag. But of course, many people commented negatively about the singer's character as a human being, like any of them are perfect people who never ever did anything wrong in their lives. Spare me.
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Again, singer usually does a good job, not great... Rest of this part I agree with. So many folks jump to the nuclear option... :(

Third, let's examine the phrase "new guy" in more depth. Usually that means that you do less talking than listening, you be respectful of your new co-workers and try to assimilate into what they're already doing without making demands or pushing your own agenda until you've been there a good while, and if you don't like what's going on, then you either take a hike or you offer your opinion knowing full well that the end result could be them telling you to take a hike.
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See my first comment about new guy...
For the first 3 years, and even to a large extent now, your description of what a new guy should do was me to a T. Even now, I still haven't raised this issue with the band, since I am not 100% sure if it is worth making waves over. Of course, it hasn't even been a week since the gig, so distance often gives perspective.

And some of you aren't going to like this, but while you might think you're extremely important to the success of a band with vocals as bassists (and make no mistake...some of you are), unless you can sing better than the lead singer and/or have a great ear for harmonies that they can't live without, you are not nearly as important as the lead singer, and even then you still may not be if they like him better than you. This goes double if you are the new guy, and it goes quadruple if you can't sing at all. And those of you who think it's OK to confront the lead singer in any way at this stage of the game are living in a world of delusion. Quit or keep quiet...those are a new guy's only two choices, and if you think otherwise, I dare you to try and prove me wrong.
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Not sure if this part was directed at me, but if so, it is not at all what I'm about. I think I fully understand my status in the band, and act accordingly. I am eminently replaceable. Having said that, after 3+ years in the band, I feel I can voice my opinion if I see something that needs addressing.

Now add in the completely moronic barrage of replies to nearly every question on here with the advice to fire someone without any sort of rational analysis or thought of the repercussions ("Fire the drummer" is a joke on here now, but I remember when it wasn't), and now why you see why I always keep it light and never discuss any current issues I have with bands. I appreciate that there are some good and smart people on here who can offer up relevant and sage advice about how they handle certain situations. Some folks are extremely good at it. But I don't want so-called advice from inexperienced people who have never been outside of their house with a musical instrument, nor do I particularly care for advice from those who may be good experienced players but have never been in unique and uncommon performance situations such as what we have in example 1 or what I've done most of my career.
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Yes, and again referencing a previous comment about wheat and chaff...
"Consider the source" is a motto I have been using a lot lately...

My main motivation for starting the thread I did was to vent, which may or may not have been constructive. But, it did solicit feedback from some that I found comforting and helpful, knowing that I'm not alone in feeling the way I did. A few grains of gold in a pan full of sediment...

In closing, thanks Jimmy for your unvarnished perspective. It is comments like yours that motivated me to start my thread in the first place, chaff be damned!
 
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#130
Before I even opened this thread, I knew what that the Cliff Notes version of the OP would be “Professionalism.” There are many reasons that I always pay close attention to @JimmyM posts, but #1 on the list is definitely the fact that he seems to me to be the consummate professional.

Having the right role models is priceless, and JimmyM is one of mine. Much respect!:thumbsup:
 
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#131
Ric5 said:
Why I NEVER Vent On Here About Band Problems

Actually it is fun … sometimes … to hear bad band stories … it makes me realize that I am not the only one who plays in bands populated by misfits
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For me it’s different. Reading the forum makes me appreciate my band mates. We have our differences, sure, but we are all adults and act like it. Could be why we haven’t had any turnover in the last eight years.
 
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#132
Cutter8 said:
Before I even opened this thread, I knew what that the Cliff Notes version of the OP would be “Professionalism.” There are many reasons that I always pay close attention to @JimmyM posts, but #1 on the list is definitely the fact that he seems to me to be the consummate professional.

Having the right role models is priceless, and JimmyM is one of mine. Much respect!:thumbsup:
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...Jimmy knows what he's talking about...
 
#133
I have no face book or twitter, don't really text unless I have to, cant tell how someone really feels like an actual phone call. Talkbass sounded interesting because I love music and playing bass guitar. have played for a little over 40 years ,in front of 20,000 a few times, mostly club circuit so ive seen a lot of issues over the years.People and problems come and go, we learn from them and keep going and try to enjoy the ride. let the good times erase the bad. I wanna hear the good stuff!
 
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#137
Steven Ayres said:
One of Jimmy's core points deserves underlining: never post anything anywhere that you aren't prepared to have the whole world see, particularly the people you're kvetching about. It's likely that, sooner or later, they will. This is one reason that since the early days of the net I've been an advocate for using real names online — it makes me, and in my experience most people, more disciplined and responsible about what we say.
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This is known as the "Newspaper Headline" test at work. We get corporately trained on this stuff all the time. If you don't think what you write/post/say will look good in a Newspaper Headline, DON'T write/post/say it - in an online forum, Social Media, email, etc. Simple. It's worked great for me. I, too never vent about other folks/band members on here or anywhere else except to the concerned parties.
 
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#139
Ric5 said:
Why I NEVER Vent On Here About Band Problems

Actually it is fun … sometimes … to hear bad band stories … it makes me realize that I am not the only one who plays in bands populated by misfits
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that is what people do. exchange stories to see if they can find patterns. In all disciplines this occurs - go on any site about various disciplines.
 
#140
Are the first and second drafts available to peruse? :)

I have to use humor. It’s universal, deflective, and when not wicked, unifying.
A tension breaker is often needed when guys start tossing each other around for just your reasons. Well thought out and well spoken, sir...
So...
Is the first draft like REALLY crazy?:laugh::roflmao:
 
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