• TalkBass has been independent since 1998. Add your voice.
    Create a free account to reply to discussions, view embedded media, and browse with fewer display ads.
    Join free Log in
    Want zero display ads or expanded classifieds tools? Compare plans.

Why is "Metal" constantly being bashed by "real" musicians?

#84
I like metal. I'm also the guy who gets weird stares from his music nerd friends when he says, "Oh man, Cassandra Wilson's cover of 'Death Letter' is soooooooo metal."

I don't like mindless playing and thrashing. I feel like a little awareness of the music that is being played goes a long way. Just take a look at ISIS's "Panopticon" album.
 
#85
The purpose of starting this thread wasn't about people not liking metal. It was to pose a question as to why do people assume that the music itself is basic and requires little to no talent to perform.
 
#86
There's a certain type of person who seeks to invalidate what they don't like or understand. They do this on all levels - not just musically. Like that guy who considers everyone he disagrees with an "idiot". It probably has to do with cognitive dissonance or something like that.

Fortunately these are a small minority on the bass forums.

Metal should always remain strange and esoteric, anyway. If it was validated by the mainstream, it would lose its appeal.




@BurningSkies: go back to page 4 and read my posts! Humorless indeed!
 
#87
Bloodhammer said:
Metal should always remain strange and esoteric, anyway. If it was validated by the mainstream, it would lose its appeal.
Click to expand...

But it has been validated by the mainstream. Around 1984-1985, Billboard Magazine started to promote metal as the next big thing. This phenomenon is not unique to metal. The entertainment industry "discovered" your genre, and popularized a caricature of it. As a result.

1. You have to put up with stereotypes of your genre that don't necessarily make sense to how you enjoy the genre yourself.

2. Thanks to the power of marketing, a new generation of fans identifies with the stereotypes, and ends up reinforcing them.

3. A battle ensues within the genre to establish authenticity and identity.
 
#88
Diversity of opinion about a work of art shows that the work is new, complex and vital.
-Oscar Wilde

You like it? Great! You think its the most pointless thing since waterproof teabags? Great! But to someone out there, its their art. That should be respected. Me? I dig music. If it moves me, it moves me. I like some metal, I hate some metal. I like some classical, I hate some classical, I like some country, I hate some country. Do whatever makes you smile, because that happy feeling is worth the scorn of a thousand naysayers.

One question I have though, why is it always thrown into a metal vs jazz debate? I know lots of cats who like both. Granted they're mostly under 40 and fusion jazz fans, maybe not true enough for the purists out there.
 
#89
Whatever anyone may think of metal music, it must be admitted that really talented lyricists virtually never find their way into a metal album. (I'm a fan of metal and have a wide-ranging taste--I just don't like the lyrics--so I do have the listening experience to speak.) In one sense, that's a fortunate thing; if a Fiona Apple, a Tori Amos, or a Nick Cave somehow ended up penning the lyrics for a metal band, his or her brilliance would largely be wasted. Can you imagine opening the sleeve of a metal CD to find the line, "I lie in an early bed, waiting for the black to replace my blue"*?

Well, of course that wouldn't happen because metal does not normally treat subjects like dreamily awaiting a lover. (And I don't mean to imply that it should.) So let's instead consider the topic of misanthropy, which occurs in--oh, let's very conservatively say at least 30% of metal albums. Show me one song in any branch of metal that conveys the message that Homo sapiens stinks beyond redemption one tenth as effectively as Nick Cave's masterpiece of weary cynicism, "People Ain't No Good". Also listen to "Everybody Knows" by Leonard Cohen. No anti-human rant by Slayer or Lamb of God comes within a mile of touching these songs.

I've often wondered why a genre that has largely built its reputation on human-hating absolutely fails to resonate with a calcified pessimist and misanthrope like me. I suspect it's because the most heartfelt kind of contempt--the kind I feel every day--is silent, and metal is the opposite of silent. It's ostentatious. Its misanthropy rings hollow. You can almost see it winking at you, feel it nudging you, letting you know the whole thing's a silly charade. With Cohen and Cave, you get the impression they were nearly too hurt and fed up even to write their songs. They're very nearly silent.
 
#90
I love talkbass and have been using it for forever, but collectively, there is very little knowledge about metal on this website. A lot of people like to give their 2 cents but lack real knowledge about metal. Bloodhammer seems to have the right idea about it.

Simply put, metal isn't for everybody. Metal requires active listening. It takes time to fully appreciate the finer aspects of all the styles of metal. There are bands I hated initially, but have grown to love. Usually for similar reasons as stated above, its all screaming/growling, nonstop double bass, too harsh, bad production, etc... But the truth is that I did not really understand it when I first heard it. Frequently there is a message or feeling the song is communicating and the techniques used to achieve that sensation are taken to whatever level deemed necessary by the songwriter. That is the appeal of metal, there are no limits, no matter how minimal or technical, slow or fast, brutal or melodic. Just about everything is fair in metal.

Metal has many philosophical concepts that are brought to life through riffs, drums, and vocals. They can be anything. Nihilism, romanticism, nature, gnosticism, paganism, death, partying, political/social issues, women, drugs, religion, hate, elation, the universe, nationalism, literally anything.

Obviously there are terrible metal bands, but there are plenty of good ones who are capable of conveying overwhelmingly intense emotions. The capabilities of metal are infinite.

That said, I'm not some dingleberry without a sense of humor, and I listen to tons of different music and consider myself a musician above metalhead. Metal is theatrical and very aesthetic, and often times over the top, but thats whats awesome about it. Perfect example of this is King Diamond. Undeniably theatrical, over the top vocals, tongue in cheek attitude, yet absolutely ripping solos with arguably some of the best solo phrasing in metal and super catchy riffs.

If you've got any questions or want any band recommendations, no prob. My favorites are black, death, and doom metal but of course there are gems anywhere you look.

Horns up, \m/
 
#92
In regards to the arguement that metal is non-melodic drivel, I don't need to say anything - if you can't here the melody in the music itself, than your ear needs some serious training. I played jazz saxaphone and classical trombone before I started playing metal bass; classical and jazz have no appeal to me anymore. Metal does.

As for the screaming thing, there is alot more to it than that. If you look at good screamer vocalist's like Randy Blythe, Dez Fafara, Angela Gossow and Mark Hunter, they perform up to 4 nights a week, for a couple months straight and NEVER lose their voices. That should immediately tell you it's more than just 'screaming into a microphone'. I can sing, but screaming I am still learning. It is a WHOLE new game again. And it is alot harder than singing (for me).

All things aside here, I believe the beautiful thing about metal that many non-metal bassist's here is missing is that the genre has such a huge influence on youth that it can inspire them to want to pick up a bass - probably more so than any other genre, including jazz. Sure, they may not end up being the world's greatest bassist but at least it is driving them to do something creative rather than sit in front of the TV/computer. That's how I started, and that's how a few of my student's have started as well.

Just my .02
 
#93
I, for one, love the metalhead jokes. Now, I don't say that metal is a mindless genre that requires no skill or whatever. I believe the opposite; metal is a VERY technical genre. My props go out to people that can do it RIGHT. The only problem with metal, and with most other genres, are (IMO) the people that try to play it because they think it's "cool" and do it for the cool factor as opposed to playing it for expressing themselves musically. It's these sad few that ruin it for the majority. The douchebaggery just seems to come naturally to these few.
 
#94
A recurring theme coming from metalphiles (pun intended) is that the rest would learn to appreciate metal if only they invested the effort.

The point being missed is that if one feels that ones senses are being assaulted, the normal and rational response is to flee, not hang around and learn to like it. Clearly, humans differ in their threshold of tolerance for what they interpret as auditory assault.
 
#95
To answer directly on the thread question: I think it's because a majority of metalheads are only that - metalheads. Quite some people who like all kinds of music also like metal, but most of the people who are into metal to begin with have no clue what else is out there. They would seem a bit like freaks to anybody else, only listening to one genre, using nothing but black clothes, and looking like some kind of zombies etc. As for me I listen to a lot of different stuff, and no one can really tell what genres I'm into by looking at me (those who have tried have been wrong).
This speed contest in all instruments simultaneously (typically in black metal etc.) is probably also making some people think that they are silly musicians. I do agree to a certain point myself, most music in the darkest genres seem to be only aggressive, but with no real musical feel or songwriting. Double bassdrumming on full speed for a whole record IS silly, and makes for no dynamic changes or interesting playing. Sometimes I think that they should go learn some sport instead, cause their playing has so little diversity. Prog metal seem much better musically, with drummers actually being creative, and using the double bassdrums more like jazz players.
 
#96
I like listening to metal and I love performing metal, I agree a lot of metal is more about the performance rather than letting the music do the talking in their live acts, but listen to their studio works (if you think you may enjoy more aggressive music, not everyone does). I will listen to any metal that isn't so rubbish that it hurts your ears with a bunch of mates when moshing or dancing. I really enjoy listening to more avant garde stuff like Sun 0))) and more progressive stuff like dream theatre when listening at home alone.

I will say that metal is really fun to play, even more fun than listening to it, and the best metal acts don't take themselves too seriously, take Alestorm for example, in what other genre would you dress up as pirates and get a lot of money for it?
 
#97
ok i was at a party recently and this actually came up. there was 2 metal guitar players and me (who is kinda like a mix between guy picciotto, tom verlaine and johnny marr) and they said to me "sean, your a great musician. you should be playing metal" to which all i could reply with was. "i could but its just not my thing."

its all down to tastes. personally imho i dont think there are MANY mainstreem metal bands that can string a song together thats actually worth a listen. i think alot of these metal bands need to go to song writing school.
just because you CAN use 10000000 notes in 30 secs doesnt mean you SHOULD.
just because you CAN scoop all the mids doenst mean you SHOULD
just because you CAN be "brutal" doesnt mean you SHOULD or ARE

less is more.
take this band for eg.

YouTube - ‪The Kills - Satellite (Live In Session, Radio 1)‬‏
 
#98
I'm an old (50+yr old), classic rock bass guy, I like to play fast and hard. I play metal, mostly the commercial stuff (Metallica). I also play Alternative metalish (such as Weezer). Its all great fun and I highly respect David Efferson (Megadeth) as a player and a teacher. Now I can't find too many audiences for listening to metal. I actually use Weezer - Hash Pipe as an instrumental lead in and out for most gigs. We slid in Enter Sandman at beach bar gigs after playing 5 Jimmy Buffet songs and no one seems to mind. Its about the audience and the quality of the gigs but I jam to Megadeth, Metallica, Alice in Chains in my garage.
 
#99
Um... lack of chordal content? Most musicians I know love good changes to blow over. Those who don't can't do it, and only practice fast scales and modes in isolation from other forms of music. These are the metal players.

Lack of groove and syncopation? Without the push/pull between players any music becomes boring.

Lack of songs that can be successfully rearranged from the original? Dumb lyrics, even?
 
#100
cdef said:
Um... lack of chordal content? Most musicians I know love good changes to blow over. Those who don't can't do it, and only practice fast scales and modes in isolation from other forms of music. These are the metal players.

Lack of groove and syncopation? Without the push/pull between players any music becomes boring.

Lack of songs that can be successfully rearranged from the original? Dumb lyrics, even?
Click to expand...

I think that's a pretty broad brush you're painting with, right there.
 

Latest posts

Top Bottom
Back