Why is Scooping bad?? Hell, is it?

[_Some Dude]

In general, I scoop the mids. For me, too much midrange leads to volume wars with the guitars.

IMO, it’s all about context, and in the context of a two guitar band I have to free up some of that territory so that they can be heard clearly. I also have the ability to go above and below them... fill out the low end while still having an attack that cuts through the mix without overwhelming it. In return, we all have a prominent place in the mix and no one is being told to turn down.

 

[Nebadon2000]

In general, I scoop the mids. For me, too much midrange leads to volume wars with the guitars.

IMO, it’s all about context, and in the context of a two guitar band I have to free up some of that territory so that they can be heard clearly. I also have the ability to go above and below them... fill out the low end while still having an attack that cuts through the mix without overwhelming it. In return, we all have a prominent place in the mix and no one is being told to turn down.

When talking mids scooped on bass its 250-500. mainly in 300-400 range this is where most scoop knobs and switches [they have various names] work. Keeping Bass mids flat or slight increase does not stomp on guitars.

I have a few Bass player acquaintances/Friends that insist on Scooping mids when playing live with Band and yes you can't here them some even annoyingly boomy. But they love there tone/sound 3- 5ft from amp. When they get a Gig with FOH and there amp is only monitor much better; decent sound guy's get it.

The 'Do what you want/if it sounds good to you crowd[hell with how the band sounds or what audience hears and all the work you put in to learning the bass lines accurately] are perplexing to me and may not be giving best advice if you plan on or are gigging/recording. Their may be times recording or live a slight scoop may work with some easy listing/acoustic type stuff and of course Slap/Pop style

Like one poster here shared if you listen to soloed bass tracks for many songs including Jamerson stuff the bass in sounds somewhat middy[slight bass/high decrease, slight mid increase but works and sound fat in mix go figure.

Get a 20-25ft cord or wireless and test theory for your self [I did back in 70's] on next gig. You also using headphone can play along with a song mix [bass removed] and see how scooped vs just flat fits in recording [I have done that to]

or maybe you would prefer to Choose 'Do what you want' if it sounds good to you that is a viable option as shown here by many.

 

[Kro]

You also using headphone can play along with a song mix [bass removed] and see how scooped vs just flat fits in recording [I have done that to]

There would be a lot less of these threads if everybody did this.

But then they'd also need to analyze their EQ to see what the EQ is actually doing to their signal at their preferred setting. Personally, having done both a number of times, I know that with my Precision I like around this level of scoop in the mixes I most frequently find myself in. All it would take is a guitar player to change their tonal profile, or for the EQ to change on the kick a little for it to need to be adjusted though.

Remember, everything stacks in a mix. Kick stacks with bass stacks with guitars stacks with vocals, and whatever else.

Given, I'm not one to preemptively assign instruments to certain frequency bands when mixing (if I'm being honest that practice bothers me), but if, for example, bass and kick are overlapping too much, it isn't hard to tell that there's an issue that needs to be fixed with additional EQ.

 

[two fingers]

I've alway been curious about this. FOH usually talk the bassist into letting them either: (1) tap the DI signal at the beginning of the effects chain, or (2) tap the DI signal from the amp pre-eq, as opposed to post-eq. The reasoning to tapping at the beginning of the signal chain is to have a constant signal in case the effects chain craps out; and tapping pre-eq gives the FOH a wide frequency range, as you stated.

This pretty much strips the bassist off any say over their sound. The expensive voodoo magical, snake-oil, tone -enchancing pedal that I just paid a lot of money for, can't be used. If I were Fieldy, and advise the FOH that my tone in the band is a mid cut /high boost, I'm still at the mercy of the FOH giving me a mid dominant tone because they think that sounds better in that specific room.

So my question is, do FOH every ask the guitarist to run their amps with all the knobs at noon, so you can have a wide range frequency to work with, or do you only pick on the bassist? LOL

A guitar produces a (relatively) narrow frequency spectrum. A bass produces every frequency a guitar does (especially when you factor in harmonics) and so much more. So, unless a dipstick guitarist simply sends me gobs of bass, I can usually do whatever I want with it.

It's not "fair", but it's physics.

It's not

 

[_Some Dude]

When talking mids scooped on bass its 250-500. mainly in 300-400 range this is where most scoop knobs and switches [they have various names] work. Keeping Bass mids flat or slight increase does not stomp on guitars.

I have a few Bass player acquaintances/Friends that insist on Scooping mids when playing live with Band and yes you can't here them some even annoyingly boomy. But they love there tone/sound 3- 5ft from amp. When they get a Gig with FOH and there amp is only monitor much better; decent sound guy's get it.

The 'Do what you want/if it sounds good to you crowd[hell with how the band sounds or what audience hears and all the work you put in to learning the bass lines accurately] are perplexing to me and may not be giving best advice if you plan on or are gigging/recording. Their may be times recording or live a slight scoop may work with some easy listing/acoustic type stuff and of course Slap/Pop style

Like one poster here shared if you listen to soloed bass tracks for many songs including Jamerson stuff the bass in sounds somewhat middy[slight bass/high decrease, slight mid increase but works and sound fat in mix go figure.

Get a 20-25ft cord or wireless and test theory for your self [I did back in 70's] on next gig. You also using headphone can play along with a song mix [bass removed] and see how scooped vs just flat fits in recording [I have done that to]

or maybe you would prefer to Choose 'Do what you want' if it sounds good to you that is a viable option as shown here by many.

Maybe you didn’t mean to quote me, but if you did then your post is full of assumptions that have no basis in reality.

As a generalized comment, I agree with most of what you said. But specific to me, you have no clue what you’re talking about.

 

[mcnach]

My scooping story: I was in my very first gigging band. The guitarist had been in a lot of bands before and I generally deferred to his experience. So at rehearsal one time, he asked if he could fiddle with my EQ, and I agreed to let him. I had been running Lo/Mid/Hi about 7/7/4 (out of 10). He winds up changing it to something like 9/2/7. I play, we figure it sounds good.

So at our next gig, we start playing our first song, and he shouts across to me, "Turn down!"

I say, "Turn down? You sure?", because I didn't have my volume up terribly high.

He says, "Yeah, turn down - it sounds really BOOMY!"

I think, "Boomy. Hm." So I dial my EQ back to 7/7/4 and leave the volume where it was.

"How's that?"

"Much better, perfect!"

 

[mcnach]

I've alway been curious about this. FOH usually talk the bassist into letting them either: (1) tap the DI signal at the beginning of the effects chain

Does this happen to you???
It makes no sense to strip you from using effects. I can only assume the guy didn't realise you had effects, or he was high on something or he hated you

I've been asked to use a specific DI rather than my own, but my FX, when I use them, are always sent to the FOH, otherwise what's the point? In fact, I test my FX during sound check to ensure levels are ok and I don't have some crazy fluctuations, for example with an envelope filter, so that there's no nasty surprises later.
With one band I'm in I use a lot of overdrive, and I bring my own DI with speaker simulation (overdrive straight to desk sounds terrible, fizzy), so if asked I explain why I use that and not a single time I've been asked to use something else. The vast majority of sound engineers just want to help you sound good. If you have your own, or it's someone who is familiar enough with your music, they know what to do. If they don't know your band, perhaps they assume what you sound is like, but I imagine they'll listen if you tell them. Most will, anyway, exceptions can occur but they must be pretty rare.

I do get the 'preEQ' DI, however. My amp onstage is often just a bass monitor, really. If there's a sound engineer, then invariably the bass goes through their system and my amp is just a monitor. In that case it makes sense, to me, to give them a preEQ (but after all my effects) signal, that way they can EQ for the room, and I EQ for the sound onstage. There's a music venue in town with a stage that's like the resonant box of an acoustic guitar... when I play there I end up removing a LOT of my low end and my onstage sound is pretty thin and middy, but it allows everybody onstage to hear me clearly at reasonably low volumes... meanwhile out in front my bass sounds full and big (ska/reggae/funk band, bass is prominent).