Why play a 6 string?

[WalterBush]

4 strings were enough for jaco.

A) Sigged, for the pure irony.

B) I'm starting to think that four strings were enough for Jaco, because people told him that four strings were enough for Jaco.

 

[Haysoochreesto]

The point of a 6 string is to severely and consistently disappoint crowds. Once you you whip it out if you're anything less than God-awesome, you suck. No questions asked.

That's soooo true. If I see a dude come out on stage sporting a big ol' badass 6 string bass then I expect to see some way above average things happen with that instrument. If he just rides root notes, then I asssume that he's a complete douchebag in his personal life too.

As for the OP, I'll repeat what many others have said. If you want a 6 string, get one. If my bandmates told me I they didn't want me playing the bass that I wanted to... First I'd laugh, then I'd give a two word response, with the second word being "you!".

 

[Stealth]

That's soooo true. If I see a dude come out on stage sporting a big ol' badass 6 string bass then I expect to see some way above average things happen with that instrument. If he just rides root notes, then I asssume that he's a complete douchebag in his personal life too.

Good thing my only gig was with a four, then. Seriously, though, it's kind of hard to figure out just how much is above average - most of the basslines I play are laced both with melody and funny rhythms, and I don't know if it justifies a sixer in others' perspective.

But, it does in mine, and as far as I'm concerned, that's all I need. A band should NEVER dictate your number of strings or bass type - unless you agree with them your 4-string P/J does the work better than your 5-string H/H.

OP, take note. Sixers are as fun as any bass - if you take them seriously. Bass is serious business.

 

[Corey_Bass]

I would love to play a 6 string bass, but to be honest with you guys: I'm not that good.

Now, seriously, I play a 5 string, but I know if I move up to a 6 str. I would probably do the same that I do now, so, I try keep on getting better. Maybe, someday I would think that I need a 6 st.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

AMEN!!

I know slash played six string bass on appetite for destruction... Really? Did not know that. Which songs?

Joe Perry played a Fender Bass VI on a bunch of classic Aerosmith songs, but he played it like a baritone guitar, not as the bass part. I think Slash did the Joe Perry thing.

 

[BananaKing]

shh, i'm trying to pot-stir. i know, i should be ashamed of myself .

hahahaha.

First thing I thought of when I saw you pop up here was "Here is a +10 for 6-ers". I also immediately thought of your castle made entirely out of 7-string Conklins.

You should know, by now, that you CANNOT hide on Talkbass, Mr. John Turner

 

[john turner]

Except when he played piano.

Also, it was enough for him at the time. He was starting to change his gear up, so who knows where he would have been these days.

It's all about what you need to express yourself... even if it's just one string.

It's all good!

uh oh.

So What...
You are not accountable to your band mates as to how many strings your instrument has.
Play the instrument that YOU want .
Why should you care about what tom dick and harry play, played or think you should play.

It's YOUR call. No?

aw shucks, some folks don't know me that well.

A) Sigged, for the pure irony.

heh. i was starting to worry.

hahahaha.

First thing I thought of when I saw you pop up here was "Here is a +10 for 6-ers". I also immediately thought of your castle made entirely out of 7-string Conklins.

You should know, by now, that you CANNOT hide on Talkbass, Mr. John Turner

apparently i still can, at least for a little while

ok, for those not in the know, i must apologize. here's my basses.

i got the first of those ----^ in '93, and i've been playing only those ---^ since.

so yeah, i was trying to be funny whilst being ironic .

 

[grifff]

All the reasons they gave were reasons that you should be worried about, not them. There is no reason why they should be discouraging a purchase that you would obviously enjoy. Get the bass.

 

[FunkMetalBass]

uh oh.



aw shucks, some folks don't know me that well.




heh. i was starting to worry.



apparently i still can, at least for a little while

ok, for those not in the know, i must apologize. here's my basses.

i got the first of those ----^ in '93, and i've been playing only those ---^ since.

so yeah, i was trying to be funny whilst being ironic .

You are the person I wanted to ask: do you ever play those basses live? I don't think I've ever seen a bassist play anything greater than a 6-er on stage (Jean Baudin & Bill Dickens aside). I've never seen it in rock music though.

 

[SGD Lutherie]

ok, for those not in the know, i must apologize. here's my basses.

The headstock on that "Jazz" bass is just obscene!

Would have really been a hoot if it was one of those all on one side jobs like Fender did once for the fives!

 

[Trauma Boy]

just get a six string!! F em'!!

 

[wideyes]

Can I play the devil's advocate here for a moment? And this is a genuine thought, fully open to genuine rebuttal by those more experienced (and maybe less ), BUT: isn't there a certain truth to the assertion that instruments start losing sound integrity when they try to reproduce frequency ranges they weren't designed to play? Ok, ok, I know what you're thinking - "If it has seven strings, it's designed to play seven strings, yada yada". But I think there's a certain wisdom to the traditional layout of these instruments, based upon a long (and you can bet your booty, well tried and researched) history of stringed-instrument manufacture. When deviating from these, there are obvious issues that pop up with scale length (which I think the "bad intonation" argument is bastardized from), string tension and thickness, frequency range the pickups are designed to "pick up", etc. etc. I think these are valid issues, from a perspective of optimal tone reproduction. Have these been addressed satisfactorily in 6-stringed basses? Now, the 5-string bass with the low B, I think, has made its argument, and it's a cogent one, made possible by the improvement in bass amplification over the years. The high C, it seems to me, has not proved itself in the same way. Do people get good results with 6 string basses? Yes. Should you buy one if you want one? Absolutely. Do higher-tuned strings on a bass guitar sound great? That's where I'm not sure. And, to be quite honest, the fact that Les is playing one doesn't exactly decide the issue for me in one fell swoop...

 

[john turner]

You are the person I wanted to ask: do you ever play those basses live? I don't think I've ever seen a bassist play anything greater than a 6-er on stage (Jean Baudin & Bill Dickens aside). I've never seen it in rock music though.

they're all i play, period, including gigs. we have a video on youtube that has live footage (with the cd track superimposed over it - wasn't a live recording).



the video footage of me playing the doubleneck is sorta inappropriate, since i only played one of my fretless 7's on this song, but the video itself was just an experiment by one of the guitarists that turned out good so we just used it.

 

[wideyes]

Oh, and JT, I don't know what's more impressive, that bass collection or the couch they're chilling on. More cushion for the plushin'!

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

Do higher-tuned strings on a bass guitar sound great? That's where I'm not sure. And, to be quite honest, the fact that Les is playing one doesn't exactly decide the issue for me in one fell swoop...

That's an issue with sound and string design, not string count. A four-string can be tuned A-D-G-C, and it would still have the same "issues" that you are bringing up. You can (and many do) have a G string with the same tonality of your average C string. A C string can sound all sort of different ways. I used a .35 C string on my 35" basses for some time as it made my C string sound almost exactly like a G string. I now have sixes with 34" scale and I'm back to using .30 or so gauges and it still sounds quite similar to a G. The scale length and string gauge itself help differentiate it from the sound of a guitar- although it is possible for someone to come close to emulating the sound of a guitar, the general tonality of identical note tones between the two instruments is quite different. Its usefulness isn't up for debate- it's obviously extremely useful for a large amount of players, including many of the greatest in the world; Clarke, Wooten, AJ, Matt Garrison, Mike Pope, Goines, Manring, and countless others have made great and regular use of the C string. Sharing a similar range with other members of the guitar family should not persuade one to think that it does not belong on their instrument; shared note frequencies are ever-present on nearly all other instrument families. And I'd bet that you've never heard someone say that a tenor sax shouldn't have its higher note tones because it's entering alto territory

 

[john turner]

Can I play the devil's advocate here for a moment? And this is a genuine thought, fully open to genuine rebuttal by those more experienced (and maybe less ), BUT: isn't there a certain truth to the assertion that instruments start losing sound integrity when they try to reproduce frequency ranges they weren't designed to play? Ok, ok, I know what you're thinking - "If it has seven strings, it's designed to play seven strings, yada yada". But I think there's a certain wisdom to the traditional layout of these instruments, based upon a long (and you can bet your booty, well tried and researched) history of stringed-instrument manufacture. When deviating from these, there are obvious issues that pop up with scale length (which I think the "bad intonation" argument is bastardized from), string tension and thickness, frequency range the pickups are designed to "pick up", etc. etc. I think these are valid issues, from a perspective of optimal tone reproduction. Have these been addressed satisfactorily in 6-stringed basses? Now, the 5-string bass with the low B, I think, has made its argument, and it's a cogent one, made possible by the improvement in bass amplification over the years. The high C, it seems to me, has not proved itself in the same way. Do people get good results with 6 string basses? Yes. Should you buy one if you want one? Absolutely. Do higher-tuned strings on a bass guitar sound great? That's where I'm not sure. And, to be quite honest, the fact that Les is playing one doesn't exactly decide the issue for me in one fell swoop...

i've had a professional mixing engineer (who was also a professional guitarist on the side, who had done stuff with r.e.m. and driving and crying, among others) in atlanta tell me he loved the guitar tone on a few solos, not realizing it was actually fretless bass being played in the higher register through a marshall midi preamp.

i think you might be overestimating the amount of r&d that went into the original design of the bass guitar. in the early 50s when electric bass was being born, it was just a quick and dirty solution for bassists being able to compete with the new electric guitars that stuck. nobody stood around and tried to examine the optimal frequency range or

in fact, more than any other modern instrument with the possible exception of electronic keyboards, the development of the bass guitar instruments, strings and amplification has been driven, not from enterprising and forward looking scientists trying to improve the wheel, but from players with vision making demands upon the builders.

there is massive historical precedent for 6 and 7 string bass range stringed instruments going back hundreds of years. joseph haydn wrote 126 viola/cello/baryton trios over 200 years ago (the baryton is an instrument with 6 or 7 strings along with many resonating harp-like strings that resided in the cello-to-double bass range)

these instruments, barytons and also viola de gambas and their like, were developed literally centuries ago, and only stopped being as commonly built because players got conservative and builders got lazy.

this is an instrument built in 1932 patterned after one built in the mid 18th century.

the wikipedia entry for the baryton is quite extensive...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baryton

 

[john turner]

Oh, and JT, I don't know what's more impressive, that bass collection or the couch they're chilling on. More cushion for the plushin'!

heh. that couch is, unfortunately, no longer with us. it has been upgraded to a bigger sectional sofa, with even more room for basses.

 

[john turner]

That's an issue with sound and string design, not string count. A four-string can be tuned A-D-G-C, and it would still have the same "issues" that you are bringing up. You can (and many do) have a G string with the same tonality of your average C string. A C string can sound all sort of different ways. I used a .35 C string on my 35" basses for some time as it made my C string sound almost exactly like a G string. I now have sixes with 34" scale and I'm back to using .30 or so gauges and it still sounds quite similar to a G. The scale length and string gauge itself help differentiate it from the sound of a guitar- although it is possible for someone to come close to emulating the sound of a guitar, the general tonality of identical note tones between the two instruments is quite different. Its usefulness isn't up for debate- it's obviously extremely useful for a large amount of players, including many of the greatest in the world; Clarke, Wooten, AJ, Matt Garrison, Mike Pope, Goines, Manring, and countless others have made great and regular use of the C string. Sharing a similar range with other members of the guitar family should not persuade one to think that it does not belong on their instrument; shared note frequencies are ever-present on nearly all other instrument families. And I'd bet that you've never heard someone say that a tenor sax shouldn't have its higher note tones because it's entering alto territory

that too.

 

[mlowe]

and in the words of marcus miller,

"it helps if you play the right notes too"

Isn't it amazing that the most respected bass players "generally" play an old fender or similar 4 string.

I always figured the B can be used no problem but going up in pitch just means you really should become a guitarist.

Also, I heard some comment that as soon as the B is there the E is weaker. So they prefer no to do it unless that B will get some use.

I thought we were talking about bass, not treble.

 

[Bryan R. Tyler]

and in the words of marcus miller,

"it helps if you play the right notes too"

Isn't it amazing that the most respected bass players "generally" play an old fender or similar 4 string.

The great majority of the players I respect and am inspired by don't. And it's not amazing at all- Fender-style four-strings were one of the very few types of instruments available throughout the majority of the very short history of the bass guitar.

I always figured the B can be used no problem but going up in pitch just means you really should become a guitarist.

What do higher notes on a bass guitar have to do with a regular guitar? They generally don't sound similar when playing the same notes, and unless you're confused into thinking that the bass guitar is a role rather than an instrument, playing higher notes shouldn't make you think the instrument is transitioning into another instrument. I know that I don't think a guitarist playing a solo in the higher registers should just put down his guitar and pick up a mandolin.

Also, I heard some comment that as soon as the B is there the E is weaker. So they prefer no to do it unless that B will get some use.

I've heard that as well, but it makes little sense. I think it's mostly that people don't pluck their E strings the same when there is a B string below it. Michael Tobias actually researched it and found that wider necks "improve" the sound of the strings, so the EADG strings would sound better on a six-string. I put improve in quotes though as preferred tone is a personal choice.

I thought we were talking about bass, not treble.

You can have a bass-y C string and a treble-y low B string. What's treble have to do with anything?