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Why so much negativity towards Fender?
- Thread starter paf77
- Start date
- Status
I love Fenders, I just wish they didn't cost so much these days.
Fortunately, I was able to procure a great Precision direct from Japan at a great price several years ago. I just wish I could do it again, but for some reason they stopped letting people order new Fenders direct from Japan (I wonder why!).
Fortunately, I was able to procure a great Precision direct from Japan at a great price several years ago. I just wish I could do it again, but for some reason they stopped letting people order new Fenders direct from Japan (I wonder why!).
We interrupt this month's installment of "why do people [hate/love] Fender" for a public service announcement:
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Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.
- Oct 7, 2000
- 18,619
- 38,939
- Disclosures
- Endorsing artist: Musicman basses
My Fender hatred pretty much began in 1999 when they gave me every reason imaginable to hate them. Bought an American P deluxe, which in hindsight I should have returned as soon as I bought.
1st, and this was unforgivable IMO... I wanted to adjust the truss rod but saw you have to get at it from the bottom of the neck and an allen wrench won't fit. I called Fender customer service and their own tech person told me you had to remove the neck to adjust it, just like the old Fenders. Brought it to guitar center and the tech there laughed and introduced me to the T wrench... a wrench I still have that has Fender's log on it.
That bass continued to give me problems from the day I bought it. There was play in all the tuners. Took it to my authorized repair guy and he told me that's the way they all were, and he couldn't do anything about it unless I wanted to pay for an upgrade.
Right aroun that time the strap pegs came out at a gig. Then the little metal piceces in the back where the strings go through. My knobs shortly after started giving me problems and another tech told me it was some kind of weird grounding issue... bla, bla, bla... the list goes on. I wound up trading the bass for a Hartke rig that someone was selling for $500.
I could chalk that up to my having bought a lemon of a bass, but I shortly after that got my hands on a 76 P bass. The neck was a complete mess and there was nothing to like about it.
Got a MIM P bass last Xmas. Had to adjust the neck ever other day, and I couldn't get a sound I liked out of it. Everthing had a 'boingy' sound to it. And it's supposed to be a really versatile bass. I tried real hard to love it, but had to sell it.
Recently got my hands on a mid 70 Jazz bass, the holy grail of basses to some... I can't begin to count the issues. The guy who it belonged to carried a little EQ box in the gigbag telling me you had to work with it to make it really sound good. It was horrible feeling and sounding. Talked about this in another thread and the fact that I was comparing it to my HS Stingray seemed come up. Well... yeah.
Add to that the fact that people look up to this company as though nothing else can touch it - and well, you get Fender haters. Just about every company out there puts out a more quality consistent product than Fender, yet some people don't want to hear it or know anything about it. If it ain't a Fender, it ain't a bass. Bla, bla, bla... I won't even get into the fact that it's not even the same company that made the bass famous. Too much to go on there.
Let me add finally that I recently got a Jaguar, and eureka!!!! I really love it. I'd say Fender may have finally gotten it together in 2009, but alas - until I did the simple shielding mod, the bass was unplayable to me. The electronic buzz was absolutely horrendous. It took me, an electronically challenged consumer, all of 15 minutes and $2 worth of copper tape to fix a really bad problem.
Fender couldn't figure this one out? Enough people here and on the rest of the planet haven't complained? C'mon. That's completely unacceptable to me from a company as huge as they are.
My hatred is warranted......
1st, and this was unforgivable IMO... I wanted to adjust the truss rod but saw you have to get at it from the bottom of the neck and an allen wrench won't fit. I called Fender customer service and their own tech person told me you had to remove the neck to adjust it, just like the old Fenders. Brought it to guitar center and the tech there laughed and introduced me to the T wrench... a wrench I still have that has Fender's log on it.
That bass continued to give me problems from the day I bought it. There was play in all the tuners. Took it to my authorized repair guy and he told me that's the way they all were, and he couldn't do anything about it unless I wanted to pay for an upgrade.
Right aroun that time the strap pegs came out at a gig. Then the little metal piceces in the back where the strings go through. My knobs shortly after started giving me problems and another tech told me it was some kind of weird grounding issue... bla, bla, bla... the list goes on. I wound up trading the bass for a Hartke rig that someone was selling for $500.
I could chalk that up to my having bought a lemon of a bass, but I shortly after that got my hands on a 76 P bass. The neck was a complete mess and there was nothing to like about it.
Got a MIM P bass last Xmas. Had to adjust the neck ever other day, and I couldn't get a sound I liked out of it. Everthing had a 'boingy' sound to it. And it's supposed to be a really versatile bass. I tried real hard to love it, but had to sell it.
Recently got my hands on a mid 70 Jazz bass, the holy grail of basses to some... I can't begin to count the issues. The guy who it belonged to carried a little EQ box in the gigbag telling me you had to work with it to make it really sound good. It was horrible feeling and sounding. Talked about this in another thread and the fact that I was comparing it to my HS Stingray seemed come up. Well... yeah.
Add to that the fact that people look up to this company as though nothing else can touch it - and well, you get Fender haters. Just about every company out there puts out a more quality consistent product than Fender, yet some people don't want to hear it or know anything about it. If it ain't a Fender, it ain't a bass. Bla, bla, bla... I won't even get into the fact that it's not even the same company that made the bass famous. Too much to go on there.
Let me add finally that I recently got a Jaguar, and eureka!!!! I really love it. I'd say Fender may have finally gotten it together in 2009, but alas - until I did the simple shielding mod, the bass was unplayable to me. The electronic buzz was absolutely horrendous. It took me, an electronically challenged consumer, all of 15 minutes and $2 worth of copper tape to fix a really bad problem.
Fender couldn't figure this one out? Enough people here and on the rest of the planet haven't complained? C'mon. That's completely unacceptable to me from a company as huge as they are.
My hatred is warranted......
Roy Vogt
Supporting Member
- Sep 20, 2000
- 4,433
- 537
- Disclosures
- Endorsing Artist: Kiesel Basses, Ampeg Amplification, Hotone Ampero II effects
Who would hate a Fender? I went through a stage when I felt they weren't for me, but I wish I hadn't in retrospect. P and J basses do one thing very, very well-sound like P and J basses.
After going through a phase where choice of bass was part of my artistic integrity, I came to realize that they are just tools. I have a wide variety of basses, including a MII Squier J bass with reworked electronics and a '72 Fender Mustang with 17 year old flatwound strings. I make sure they all record and play well, so I can use pretty much anything with any circumstance.
Fender's are no-brainers. They are made of simple parts and electronics and simple woods (ash or alder bodies, maple necks). Leo had a machine shop, so they have more in common with 1950s cars than anything-you can swap parts, they are easy to repair. I call them the Volkswagens of instruments: you could rebuild a Beetle in the 60s and 70s using J C Whitney parts and you can rebuild a P or J with way too many parts to list.
No voodoo here-Leo got it right...
Disclosure: I also play ERBs and "coffee table" basses in abundance....sometimes more is more
After going through a phase where choice of bass was part of my artistic integrity, I came to realize that they are just tools. I have a wide variety of basses, including a MII Squier J bass with reworked electronics and a '72 Fender Mustang with 17 year old flatwound strings. I make sure they all record and play well, so I can use pretty much anything with any circumstance.
Fender's are no-brainers. They are made of simple parts and electronics and simple woods (ash or alder bodies, maple necks). Leo had a machine shop, so they have more in common with 1950s cars than anything-you can swap parts, they are easy to repair. I call them the Volkswagens of instruments: you could rebuild a Beetle in the 60s and 70s using J C Whitney parts and you can rebuild a P or J with way too many parts to list.
No voodoo here-Leo got it right...
Disclosure: I also play ERBs and "coffee table" basses in abundance....sometimes more is more
Here is the reason I personally dislike Fender designed instruments...
THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND YOU ALL ARE ENTITLED TO YOURS. I WILL NOT BASH YOU FOR LIKING THEM AND I EXPECT THE SAME FROM YOU.
1) That neck heel block. I can't play comfortably past the 14th fret.
2) The bodies are very large and chunky. To me they seem heavy and are not designed to balance the weight like Warwicks are.
3) The pickguard. I took the pickguard off my jazz and it was infinitely more comfortable to slap, but it was ugly.
4) Quality. The neck pockets on ALMOST every non-American Fender I have seen have been sub-par. Many times the pickguard doesn't line up with the control panel, and that bugs me. Every Fender I have played has felt cheap. Once again, my experience and opinion.
5) Price. For the price of an American Fender I can make a Warmoth jazz bass that is the same exact thing aesthetically but more customized to my preferences. Example: Stainless steel fretwire.
Don't get me wrong, I love the way they look and sound, but I don't feel like it is a good trade for playability. Hence Warwicks are my favorite basses, even though I don't have any
(I have owned one though but it was not in good enough condition to warrant the price I payed) though I am buying one off of eno shortly.... YAYYAYAA
Once again, this is my opinion and you are free to have yours.
THIS IS MY PERSONAL OPINION AND YOU ALL ARE ENTITLED TO YOURS. I WILL NOT BASH YOU FOR LIKING THEM AND I EXPECT THE SAME FROM YOU.
1) That neck heel block. I can't play comfortably past the 14th fret.
2) The bodies are very large and chunky. To me they seem heavy and are not designed to balance the weight like Warwicks are.
3) The pickguard. I took the pickguard off my jazz and it was infinitely more comfortable to slap, but it was ugly.
4) Quality. The neck pockets on ALMOST every non-American Fender I have seen have been sub-par. Many times the pickguard doesn't line up with the control panel, and that bugs me. Every Fender I have played has felt cheap. Once again, my experience and opinion.
5) Price. For the price of an American Fender I can make a Warmoth jazz bass that is the same exact thing aesthetically but more customized to my preferences. Example: Stainless steel fretwire.
Don't get me wrong, I love the way they look and sound, but I don't feel like it is a good trade for playability. Hence Warwicks are my favorite basses, even though I don't have any
(I have owned one though but it was not in good enough condition to warrant the price I payed) though I am buying one off of eno shortly.... YAYYAYAAOnce again, this is my opinion and you are free to have yours.
Certainly you realize that "setup" is the dealers responsibility. They come from Fender setup (most of them quite well, I might add), and then things like humidity, neglect, and abuse happen at the dealer. You mention that the G&L's and Lakies don't seem to suffer from the same things...well, I can tell you that G&L's certainly do, and I've played Lakies that need setup plenty of times....but the Laklans DO get a bit of "extra attention" from the dealer, AND before they get to the dealer. You have to remember that salespeople set up the instruments that they...
A) Like the most
B) Make the most money on
C) Know that the most people will play
So if you have 30 Fenders, 3 G&L's, and 2 Laklands, you have to think that KNOWING that the Laklands and G&L's are likely to
be "picked up and played" more often (simple odds), than they keep the setups on those fresher. Also, customers who play a Lakland or G&L are far more likely to ASK a dealer to change the strings or setup while they are "considering a purchase", so these basses do typically get more attention from employees....that's just my experience with selling all three of those brands.
bamba22
Commercial User
I'll add that I did own a Marcus Miller bass once and it was probably the best playing bass I've ever owned buuuuutttttt............it weighed 14 frikkin pounds!! Sorry, it had to go!
They don't have a monopoly. Just an illusion of no choice. For every Microsoft product, there are several excellent free alternatives, OpenOffice.org is great and so is Ubuntu, but if you're really into product quality, then scrap it all and buy a Mac.
PS, I have the exact same Peavey Patriot, except with the original PU. My first bass, back in 1986.
Just to "back you up", Bill -
There are nearly ALWAYS options available to the person who is willing to look for them.
That goes for just about everything in life.
Hence Warwicks are my favorite basses, even though I don't have any
Haha, I like how you payed for Warwick's garbage but criticize aesthetic and often easily correctable Fender issues. Pre-conceived notions, perhaps? Searching for something wrong to criticize, perhaps?
MS is much more than Windows, but to state that it is all stolen code patched together is just plain false. They steal ideas, not code. Then they do an excellent job of marketing those stolen ideas. This is the real reason why Apple is not already dominant in the desktop world; they had everything Windows 95 had back in 1991, but Apple sucked at marketing back then. Not to mention Novell, IBM (OS/2!), Corel WordPerfect, Sun Microsystems, Netscape, ICQ, etc. etc. That industry should thank Google and Steve Jobs!
The analogy to Fender is not accurate because Fender's marketing is also not great (they don't need great marketing) and their product is actually pretty good. But I do believe that's why so many people hate Fender - just boring old antipathy towards the status quo.
I'm old school -- I believe that you don't buy an instrument you don't know how to take care of. News flash: Fenders are made out of wood, and no two pieces of wood are alike.
Learn to do set ups. It's not hard, there's a tremendous amount of free information available on how to do it, and, once you learn how, you'll never have to worry about a dealer's set up -- or lack of same -- again.
My '51 P RI came from Japan in a cardboard box. I tweaked the truss rod one time, after the bass had been in humid East Texas for about a week, and haven't had to touch it again in 4 years.
Yes, you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod. So be grateful you don't own of those '50s American cars where you had to jack up the front end of the car and remove the front wheels to change the spark plugs. (OK, I'll admit, this is something that doesn't, at first glance, make a lot of sense, but it's the way Fender does it, and it's partly because their "solutions" to that problem over the years have caused more problems. There are workarounds: learn what they are.)
I've never gotten a bass or guitar or Dobro that didn't need a set up to suit me -- oops, forgot the MIM fretless Jazz that arrived from the Columbia River area (traded a bass to a fellow TB'er for it) that had a PERFECT set up. Three or four years later, it resides at the local studio where everyone who picks it up remarks on how terrific the action is.
Learn to do set ups. It's not hard, there's a tremendous amount of free information available on how to do it, and, once you learn how, you'll never have to worry about a dealer's set up -- or lack of same -- again.
My '51 P RI came from Japan in a cardboard box. I tweaked the truss rod one time, after the bass had been in humid East Texas for about a week, and haven't had to touch it again in 4 years.
Yes, you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod. So be grateful you don't own of those '50s American cars where you had to jack up the front end of the car and remove the front wheels to change the spark plugs. (OK, I'll admit, this is something that doesn't, at first glance, make a lot of sense, but it's the way Fender does it, and it's partly because their "solutions" to that problem over the years have caused more problems. There are workarounds: learn what they are.)
I've never gotten a bass or guitar or Dobro that didn't need a set up to suit me -- oops, forgot the MIM fretless Jazz that arrived from the Columbia River area (traded a bass to a fellow TB'er for it) that had a PERFECT set up. Three or four years later, it resides at the local studio where everyone who picks it up remarks on how terrific the action is.
Excuse me sir, but I didn't insult your choice in basses. I'm going off of playing Fender designed instruments since I've started playing 3 years ago. I have owned a Warwick, and loved every second of it. I have also owned a Fender Precision and am currently playing a Warmoth Jazz, which is designed the same as a Fender. I don't like them.
I have also been playing Warwicks at Guitar Center and borrowing friend's warwicks since the moment I started playing bass and wanting one but could not afford it.
Unfortunately I bought it used and it was in poor condition and not worth what I payed for it. I am purchasing one in better condition soon for less from someone on TB.
Now please do not criticize my choice in basses. It is MY preference, not yours. I stated my opinion. I prefer Warwicks over anything.
I said more comfortable, sound difference was not implied. I have sausage fingers and I can fit my fingers under the strings more easily without the pickguard.
LOL!!!!
Share that little joke with Apple and Xerox PARC.....
after you finish the koolaide, of course!
Richard Stallman would get a kick out of it too, now that I think of it.
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