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Why so much negativity towards Fender?

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#101
Don't actually hate Fender, they are just not the type I am looking for. I have tried them and they do sound/feel really nice... but just not the sound I want. I like the Musicman style. Unfortunatly I am unable to aford the $1,500 price tag on them.... so I am looking for alternatives.... but I digress...lol..

The Fenders I have tried all seemed goo solid basses... both P an Jazz styles...

just not my sound....

there is my two cents :)
 
#102
I read through the Dr Licks' bio of Babbitt, and he mentions about 3 basses: an early '60s P that was stolen, a CBS 70's -era, and a '58.

Good read. He's a very fluent bass player. After seeing Standing in the Shadows of Motown I thought he was a Detroit phenom -- but he's played everywhere.
 
#103
For the price thing. As pointed out earlier Fender is one of the cheapest US made instruments available. They are cheaper than MusicMan, Rickenbacker, Gibson, G&L, Lakland, etc. I think Peavey might be the only company making a cheaper US bass. Do I think prices are high on basses? Sure, but I think it is across the board and Fender is on the low end of it. Also, for fun go out and figure out what a Fender cost in the 50's and 60's and adjust for inflation. You might be suprised.

And you MIGHT be able to spec something out cheaper with Warmoth but only if you do the work yourself. Since a Fender comes pre-assembled then it is only fair to price in the cost of a tech to assemble in your comparison. After that I bet it would be very difficult to get a Warmoth for the price of a Fender. And then when you were done you would have a bass with zero resell value.
 
#104
Joe Nerve said:
That was actually fun. :)
Click to expand...

Joe, I appreciate your post, but the problems you had are not really that big of a deal and should have been pretty easy to fix. If you didn't like the sound of a bass, that's really a personal preference and not necessarily a problem with the bass. Without going in to detail, I have had these same kinds of problems with Ernie Ball basses and others.
 
#105
Johnny Alien said:
And you MIGHT be able to spec something out cheaper with Warmoth but only if you do the work yourself. Since a Fender comes pre-assembled then it is only fair to price in the cost of a tech to assemble in your comparison. After that I bet it would be very difficult to get a Warmoth for the price of a Fender. And then when you were done you would have a bass with zero resell value.
Click to expand...

When I was lusting for a natural ash/maple unlined fingerboard fretless P, I priced out the complete bass through Warmoth. It came to a bit more than what I paid for a natural ash P, with a Warmoth finished neck + Schallers, a string retainer and installed nut.

What the heck: here's a pic.
FenderStandardPrecisionwHartke.jpg
 
#106
I don't "hate" or "bash" Fenders. I do dislike them personally and have no desire to own one though. The ONLY 2 things I have a gripe with are:

1. Appearance. I personally don't care for the shape or finish of a Fender. Of course, this is simply my taste in things and should be unique to me.

2. Price. Not the overall price of an MIA, but the huge gap in price between the MIM's and MIA's. I just don't see that much of a step up in quality, tone, craftmanship, etc between the two. Again, this is simply my opinion and I don't expect anyone to share it. But since this thread is here I figured I would post my thoughts on the subject.

If you do like a Fender, then by all means run with it. I'll never down anyone for what bass they choose to play. All I ask is that the same respect is shown to me. Which sadly, too many Fender purists can't live with. But hey, nobody is perfect and the world needs a-holes just like it needs good people.

Cheers,

Zach
 
#108
I think the Highway One's are worth their price. USA G&L's are priced right there in the range of the MIA Standard P. A MIA Deluxe J is right there in the range of EBMM Stingrays and Sterlings. I might be weird, could be placebo, but every G&L and EBMM I've compared to MIA Fenders (at the same time) felt more solid and seemed to have better fretwork.

I've always had a hard time telling the MIM and MIA apart by feel and quality without looking at the headstock. I don't knock Fenders at all. I'd recommend a good Squier or MIM to anyone, without a second thought, but it would be recommended amongst other things.
 
#110
Strychnine said:
I think the Highway One's are worth their price. USA G&L's are priced right there in the range of the MIA Standard P. A MIA Deluxe J is right there in the range of EBMM Stingrays and Sterlings. I might be weird, could be placebo, but every G&L and EBMM I've compared to MIA Fenders (at the same time) felt more solid and seemed to have better fretwork.

I've always had a hard time telling the MIM and MIA apart by feel and quality without looking at the headstock. I don't knock Fenders at all. I'd recommend a good Squier or MIM to anyone, without a second thought, but it would be recommended amongst other things.
Click to expand...


What is your opinion of the new Sterling by Musicman line versus Ernie Ball Musicman comparing price differences?
 
#111
I dig Fender and I like their guitars and basses. They've been around along time and are part of my musical career which spans 35 yrs.

I don't understand why so many people bash such an iconic company. Almost every bass made today is based on a Fender design one way or another.

Let the Fender haters do their hating, that's on them. All I know is that I'm digging my Jazz Bass.:smug:

Keep rock'n.:bassist:
 
#112
To be honest, I think there are **** throwers on both sides of this issue. :ninja:

I like Fenders. They look great, they sound pretty good, and they feel good.

I think Fender prices are fair, on most of their products at least. Not the best price-product deal out there, but not overpriced. A real "get what you pay for" type of instrument.

I do think Fender does have some quality control type issues, though. There certainly does seem to be a lot of lemons out there. I suppose it could be due to the large number of Fenders on the market?

If I drop money on an instrument, I expect some of those dollars are for reliability and quality control. If I have to fight bad truss rods and shim necks to get all of those dollars, meaning that those dollars were not used correctly, I may as well have spent the money elsewhere. This is what I experienced on my MiM Fender Deluxe. Love the bass, hate the frustration and work I had to put into it to solve issues that should have been avoided at the factory.
 
#113
king_biscuit said:
What is your opinion of the new Sterling by Musicman line versus Ernie Ball Musicman comparing price differences?
Click to expand...


On Christmas Eve I was comparing them, in addition to several Fenders. I went prepared to drop the coin on a EBMM Sterling. I started to snatch a new Geddy Lee for $900. I ended up leaving with a SBMM SB14.

There was no noticeable difference in feel or tone between the EBMM Sterling and SBMM SB14. The real difference between them is options. EBMM has a wider selections of finishes and pickup configs. If you want an HS or HH pickup config, you must buy EBMM.
 
#114
ImMoreBetter said:
If I drop money on an instrument, I expect some of those dollars are for reliability and quality control. If I have to fight bad truss rods and shim necks to get all of those dollars, meaning that those dollars were not used correctly, I may as well have spent the money elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Where are all of the Fenders with bad truss rods? I've never had one, although I'm sure with as many basses as Fender makes they do exit. As far as shims, they are standard issue on Peavey, Ernie Ball, Nash, and many other basses; this is NOT a quality control issue!
 
#115
Strychnine said:
On Christmas Eve I was comparing them, in addition to several Fenders. I went prepared to drop the coin on a EBMM Sterling. I started to snatch a new Geddy Lee for $900. I ended up leaving with a SBMM SB14.

There was no noticeable difference in feel or tone between the EBMM Sterling and SBMM SB14.
Click to expand...

So then, a single pickup honeyburst EBMM is REALLY REALLY overpriced then? According to my research it is more than double the price of a comparable SBMM! Let me say that I don't think the Fender or the EBMMs are overpriced, because it costs more to produce a product in the US than it does in Mexico or Indonesia.
 
#116
Dark Horse said:
I would LOVE to see proof of this statement. My observations come from 10 years working on thousands of instruments per year....where do yours come from ?
Click to expand...

OK. Sorry. That makes you right. You've got your proof right there.

But wait...

In the thousands upon thousands of threads and posts here, hmmm.... how many people complain about quality control at Warwick? Hmmm.... at Ernie Ball? Hmmm.... at Spector? Lakland? Peavey? Modulus? Pedulla? Carvin? G&L? I probably just imagine that I'm seeing so many complaints regarding quality control with Fender. Bad me.
 
#117
Boostedrex said:
I don't "hate" or "bash" Fenders. I do dislike them personally and have no desire to own one though. The ONLY 2 things I have a gripe with are:

1. Appearance. I personally don't care for the shape or finish of a Fender. Of course, this is simply my taste in things and should be unique to me.

2. Price. Not the overall price of an MIA, but the huge gap in price between the MIM's and MIA's. I just don't see that much of a step up in quality, tone, craftmanship, etc between the two. Again, this is simply my opinion and I don't expect anyone to share it. But since this thread is here I figured I would post my thoughts on the subject.

If you do like a Fender, then by all means run with it. I'll never down anyone for what bass they choose to play. All I ask is that the same respect is shown to me. Which sadly, too many Fender purists can't live with. But hey, nobody is perfect and the world needs a-holes just like it needs good people.

Cheers,

Zach
Click to expand...

Sure, you want to pay Mexican rates, but after the gig, I'll bet you want to receive American rates.
 
#118
I used to dismiss Fenders because they were usually passive, but once I learned to appreciate passive basses, that's no longer an issue for me. My remaining beef with them is that most of them (i. e. the really popular ones) only have 20 frets. It's not like I want to play super high notes all the time but there's times when I do. Why not give us at least 21 so we can hit that high E without having to bend the hell out of the G string?

Joe Nerve said:
In the thousands upon thousands of threads and posts here, hmmm.... how many people complain about quality control at Warwick?
Click to expand...
There's a German bass forum that I sometimes read that is chock full with complaints about Warwick and their quality. They've sort of become the German Fender (at least for bass players over here).
 
#119
Joe Nerve said:
OK. Sorry. That makes you right. You've got your proof right there.

But wait...

In the thousands upon thousands of threads and posts here, hmmm.... how many people complain about quality control at Warwick? Hmmm.... at Ernie Ball? Hmmm.... at Spector? Lakland? Peavey? Modulus? Pedulla? Carvin? G&L? I probably just imagine that I'm seeing so many complaints regarding quality control with Fender. Bad me.
Click to expand...


People like to rehash what others say. This is a common problem with the internet... lots of people saying things that they "heard", or "read", without any ACTUAL experience.

That said, does it stand to reason that since Fender sells what... conservatively, 500 basses for every Lakland sold...1000 basses for every Modulus.... 1000 for every Carvin.... 100 for every Peavey.... etc.... doesn't it stand to reason that there would LOGICALLY be more complaints simply because of the sheer volume of instruments sold ?

I don't have actual numbers, and can only relate my (pretty vast) experience with repairing and setting up instruments, but my experience tells me that the percentage of Fenders that is "bad" is no better or worse than any of these other brands yo mention. Ask people about G&L neck issues. Common knowledge that they had issues for years, and they WEREN'T just setup issues. Laklands... I love 'em, but people have had some problems...I know some people mentioned them in a thread a couple weeks ago. Modulus... great basses, but it's hard to get any bearings on them due to the low volume sold...I can tell you this though...the Quantum 5 that I used to own was a great bass EXCEPT the EMG 18V preamp died after about 2 months (This was an EMG issue, not a Modulus IMO...though many here on the forum would say it was "bad QC at Modulus")

So...what are YOUR experiences with "bad Fenders", or are you just regurgitating things that you read on a message board (that in all likelihood were exaggerated or weren't ever REALLY QC issues).

As I said, my years of working on instruments tells me that Fenders are pretty darn good "quality-wise"...certainly no worse than most of the brands you mentioned.
 
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