Why so much negativity towards Fender?

[JulienJeff]

We interrupt this month's installment of "why do people [hate/love] Fender" for a public service announcement:

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Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

lol

 

[michael_atw]

My Fender hatred pretty much began in 1999 when they gave me every reason imaginable to hate them. Bought an American P deluxe, which in hindsight I should have returned as soon as I bought.

I should have stopped here, and said 'hey man...that's why they have A) warranties and B) return policies.'

1st, and this was unforgivable IMO... I wanted to adjust the truss rod but saw you have to get at it from the bottom of the neck and an allen wrench won't fit. I called Fender customer service and their own tech person told me you had to remove the neck to adjust it, just like the old Fenders. Brought it to guitar center and the tech there laughed and introduced me to the T wrench... a wrench I still have that has Fender's log on it.

So its Fender's fault you didn't check your instrument's specs before you bought it? Besides, every USA bass I've ever bought came with a T-wrench. I dunno if they failed to included them back in '99...I'll wait to see if someone can correct me but I believe they did.

That bass continued to give me problems from the day I bought it. There was play in all the tuners. Took it to my authorized repair guy and he told me that's the way they all were, and he couldn't do anything about it unless I wanted to pay for an upgrade.

Again...check warranties and return policies. If the issues came up immediately after you bought it, its kinda your responsibility to take them up on their generous policies. "Play" in tuners isn't something all Fender basses have. Either it was something you blew up out of nothing, or the repair guy is an idiot. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Right aroun that time the strap pegs came out at a gig. Then the little metal piceces in the back where the strings go through.

Little metal pieces? The "collars" on the string-thru holes? I'm guessing you put your bass through a drastic change in humidity/temperature that shrunk the wood. That would cause those "collars" to fall out. They don't just randomly fall out one day. Either way, there's an easy way to solve that: put the damn things back in!

I could chalk that up to my having bought a lemon of a bass, but I shortly after that got my hands on a 76 P bass. The neck was a complete mess and there was nothing to like about it.

That's because you were jaded from your '99 bass purchase and had pre-conceived notions that made you criticize everything about every Fender bass you will ever buy.

Got a MIM P bass last Xmas. Had to adjust the neck ever other day, and I couldn't get a sound I liked out of it. Everthing had a 'boingy' sound to it. And it's supposed to be a really versatile bass. I tried real hard to love it, but had to sell it.

So you wanted another one after all this...for why? I'm guessing you couldn't get over their true amazing qualities

Seriously though, these are probably set-up issues and could have been helped by changing the strings too probably.

Recently got my hands on a mid 70 Jazz bass, the holy grail of basses to some... I can't begin to count the issues. The guy who it belonged to carried a little EQ box in the gigbag telling me you had to work with it to make it really sound good. It was horrible feeling and sounding. Talked about this in another thread and the fact that I was comparing it to my HS Stingray seemed come up. Well... yeah.

And, you didn't even think that probably over the last 34 years the 1-a billion owners that have played it may have treated it like crap? C'mon now. I like how you keep going back to playing Fender though. It's very...strange, especially with your disgust for them.

Add to that the fact that people look up to this company as though nothing else can touch it - and well, you get Fender haters. Just about every company out there puts out a more quality consistent product than Fender, yet some people don't want to hear it or know anything about it. If it ain't a Fender, it ain't a bass. Bla, bla, bla... I won't even get into the fact that it's not even the same company that made the bass famous. Too much to go on there.

Sounds like you listen to everyone else way too much. I barely ever hear a peep or hate from most Fender owners. Most could give a crap less about other basses, they love theirs too much. They have to defend their basses from people who unfairly stereotype them all, just like they unfairly stereotype all of their basses. You might want to just say you hate Fender because "everyone else likes it".

Let me add finally that I recently got a Jaguar, and eureka!!!! I really love it. I'd say Fender may have finally gotten it together in 2009, but alas - until I did the simple shielding mod, the bass was unplayable to me. The electronic buzz was absolutely horrendous. It took me, an electronically challenged consumer, all of 15 minutes and $2 worth of copper tape to fix a really bad problem.

haha...I have the same bass and have played something like 200 "gigs" with it over the last two years and have had little to no problem dealing with the "horrendous" buzz. Granted, it can get a little nasty at times (poorly grounded outlets) but if you aren't standing there in dead silence staring at the wall it really never is an issue.

Fender couldn't figure this one out? Enough people here and on the rest of the planet haven't complained? C'mon. That's completely unacceptable to me from a company as huge as they are.

Hey, you bought it. You kept it. Still not sure why you keep buying them though since they're so terrible...

 

[michael_atw]

Excuse me sir, but I didn't insult your choice in basses.

I didn't insult your bass. You said you paid more for it than it was worth. That's what makes it "garbage" to me. I suppose I could have used a less stronger word but I couldn't think of anything else at the time. Sorry.

 

[OneMoreRobot]

I should probably have specified I bought it sight unseen used from a GC in Oregon who told me it was in fine condition. The fretless fingerboard was so dented on the sides it was almost unplayable, the pickups had grooves in it from someone playing it with roundwounds, and it had a chunk of wood taken out of the body. So it was GC I had a problem with, not Warwick. So I returned it.

 

[T-MOST]

I love Fenders. MIA and Custom Shops are great basses as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Joetheschmoe]

I'm old school -- I believe that you don't buy an instrument you don't know how to take care of. News flash: Fenders are made out of wood, and no two pieces of wood are alike.

Learn to do set ups. It's not hard, there's a tremendous amount of free information available on how to do it, and, once you learn how, you'll never have to worry about a dealer's set up -- or lack of same -- again.

My '51 P RI came from Japan in a cardboard box. I tweaked the truss rod one time, after the bass had been in humid East Texas for about a week, and haven't had to touch it again in 4 years.

Yes, you have to take the neck off to adjust the truss rod. So be grateful you don't own of those '50s American cars where you had to jack up the front end of the car and remove the front wheels to change the spark plugs. (OK, I'll admit, this is something that doesn't, at first glance, make a lot of sense, but it's the way Fender does it, and it's partly because their "solutions" to that problem over the years have caused more problems. There are workarounds: learn what they are.)

I've never gotten a bass or guitar or Dobro that didn't need a set up to suit me -- oops, forgot the MIM fretless Jazz that arrived from the Columbia River area (traded a bass to a fellow TB'er for it) that had a PERFECT set up. Three or four years later, it resides at the local studio where everyone who picks it up remarks on how terrific the action is.

This man is completely right. If you can't take care of a Fender, you shouldn't own one. Well, if you can't take care of a fender, what bass can you take care of? In my experience, Fenders are the easiest to do. I have had to set up my fender once. Everything else is more than solid. I wish I could say the same for some other bass companies.

Also, overpriced? *Ahem* Every 09 Fender I have played, (Not some, EVERY) has been solid, and worth the price. They top older ones by a mile. Never an electronic problem, and if set up, is always amazing to play. Also, You buy locally. You can always haggle, and can always beat Musiciansfriend's price. I've done it so many times, be it strings, cables, straps, whatever.

Fender wouldn't be the top dog, if they had nothing to bring to the table. They supply dinner.

Hataz gonna hate.

 

[bucephylus]

The following comments are strictly my opinion, nothing more or less.

I am a huge Fender fan and user. I feel strongly that Leo was a genius, as demonstrated by the pervasiveness and utility of his designs. Feel free to bash this comment, but history is bearing it out, whether anyone likes it or not.

The company has been through a lot of changes that a lot of cats may be unaware of. They are not all that big of a company anymore. Along the way, they got bought out by the evil empire CBS, re-acquired by employees who believed in the products and took some big chances, and are now headquartered in Scottsdale AZ.

I went to their annual awards ceremony at the big performance hall in Tempe with my daughter, who was taking MBA classes with a Fender employee this past summer. They were honoring James Jamerson and the Fender Japan original president, whose name escapes me. It was a very thoughtful and well presented ceremony. Annie Jamerson spoke. Bob Babbit spoke and performed. 5 stars.

They are a not-so-huge company that is doing their best to carry on a tradition and extend the technology in appropriate products. My most recent bass acquisition was a Marcus Miller V, which may not be an Alleva-Coppolo or Sadowsky, but is still a heck of a great axe at half the price. I personally prefer it to the Sadowsky Metro I sold to get it; not to take anything away from Roger's work, which I still greatly admire.

It is great that we have other choices. Some of them are certainly better for certain players. Meanwhile, the current version of Fender is doing their best. That's about all we can ask of them.

IMO

 

[Bass Viking]

Add to that the fact that people look up to this company as though nothing else can touch it - and well, you get Fender haters. Just about every company out there puts out a more quality consistent product than Fender, yet some people don't want to hear it or know anything about it. If it ain't a Fender, it ain't a bass. Bla, bla, bla... I won't even get into the fact that it's not even the same company that made the bass famous. Too much to go on there.

This sums it up for me.

"It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."

 

[lpdeluxe]

This man is completely right. If you can't take care of a Fender, you shouldn't own one. Well, if you can't take care of a fender, what bass can you take care of? In my experience, Fenders are the easiest to do. I have had to set up my fender once. Everything else is more than solid. I wish I could say the same for some other bass companies.

Also, overpriced? *Ahem* Every 09 Fender I have played, (Not some, EVERY) has been solid, and worth the price. They top older ones by a mile. Never an electronic problem, and if set up, is always amazing to play. Also, You buy locally. You can always haggle, and can always beat Musiciansfriend's price. I've done it so many times, be it strings, cables, straps, whatever.

Fender wouldn't be the top dog, if they had nothing to bring to the table. They supply dinner.

Hataz gonna hate.

Thank you, and you offer some good advice on your own. I particularly like the line "Well, if you can't take care of a fender, what bass can you take care of?" I once owned a neck-through boutique bass that required a truss rod tweak almost every time I pulled it out of the case.

I can always get "lowest internet price" from my local dealer, and he stands behind what he sells. No faceless web site, real guitar techs in the shop.

I went to their annual awards ceremony at the big performance hall in Tempe with my daughter, who was taking MBA classes with a Fender employee this past summer. They were honoring James Jamerson and the Fender Japan original president, whose name escapes me. It was a very thoughtful and well presented ceremony. Annie Jamerson spoke. Bob Babbit spoke and performed. 5 stars.

Great story. I recently watched Mr Babbitt in action on the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" DVD. Very cool. Almost enough to make me lust for a sunburst '62 P....

 

[FunkMetalBass]

It's Fender. Just the name instills feelings of hatred self-loathing upon my pathetic soul.

 

[king_biscuit]

This sums it up for me.

"It's not the band I hate, it's their fans."

That's funny. It's exactly how I feel about EBMM these days!

 

[king_biscuit]

Great story. I recently watched Mr Babbitt in action on the "Standing in the Shadows of Motown" DVD. Very cool. Almost enough to make me lust for a sunburst '62 P....

Great video for sure. But was Babbitt playing a 62? I thought is was something a bit later.



Edit: Check out some of the photos here, they are from that session and show the larger CBS fender logo:

[Invalid or Expired Link Removed]

 

[WoodyG3]

As far as set up in the store goes, if I'm really interested in a bass, I ask the store to do a truss rod adjustment for me. The guys at Guitar Center are more willing to do that than many other stores I've been in, interestingly. And, I haven't noticed that the set up on in-store instruments is any worse on Fenders than any other brand.

The cost of a new MIA doesn't seem out of line to me. I also agree that comparing Fender prices to Sadowsky is off track, but Look at Music Man, G&L, or Peavey's prices on their MIA instruments and Fender prices seem fine to me. Maybe the recent price increases are what get people upset?

OTOH, I don't think Fenders are the be all and end all. Brand loyalty can get a little out of hand at times.

 

[Double Agent]

2) The bodies are very large and chunky. To me they seem heavy and are not designed to balance the weight like Warwicks are.

You are entitled to your opinion, but I have to bring this up. I have played many, many Warwicks and very few have been lighter than the average Fender. As far as balancing the weight goes, individual examples may vary, but I will take the balance of any P-bass over a Thumb. There may be other attributes about the Thumb that are preferable to a P-bass, but balance is not one of them IME.

As far as the rest of your post, most of it is talking about asthetic preferences. Everyone is different, but asthetic choice is hardly a reason to "hate" or "bash" any brand. That is why there are a lot of choices on the market. I have played and owned many basses, some bordering on boutique, others more middle of the road. I agree with the previous poster who said "they are tools". When I am looking for P-bass tone, I don't reach for my Cirrus or my Spector. And the reverse is true as well. Fenders do what they do and there really is no substitute, but they obviously don't do everything perfectly. FWIW, I have played quite a few Fender-styled Laklands and G&Ls and found that I, pretty much across the board, prefer the equivalent Fenders. But, it is great to have choices.

 

[Dark Horse]

Originally Posted by Joe Nerve -
Just about every company out there puts out a more quality consistent product than Fender...

I would LOVE to see proof of this statement. My observations come from 10 years working on thousands of instruments per year....where do yours come from ?

 

[derridiandrift]

I believe that people tend to have a great deal of their identity invested in the brands they consume, which also implies that they reject the identity of those brands they don't consume. I'd love to debate that.

 

[onlyclave]

LOL. Fender is like Monster Cable. They have a lot of name recognition and brand cache but they don't bring a lot to the table. There are better basses out there.

 

[michael_atw]

I would LOVE to see proof of this statement. My observations come from 10 years working on thousands of instruments per year....where do yours come from ?

His pre-conceived notions.

 

[lpdeluxe]

Great video for sure. But was Babbitt playing a 62? I thought is was something a bit later

It may very well be -- it just has the appearance of Jamerson's '62, and when I saw it, I immediately thought of the '62 P RI. Looking at The Fender Bass Book, that combination of three-color burst, rosewood fingerboard, and tortoise pickguard seems to have been available almost every year since '62.

Funny -- I used to not like sunbursts, and now I have a '57 in two-color burst, and I love it.

Thanks for the link.

 

[Joe Nerve]

I should have stopped here, and said 'hey man...that's why they have A) warranties and B) return policies.'

That's why I took it to an authorized repair person. That's what Fender 'advised' me to do with their warranty. Shipping the bass at that time back to Fender and being without it for the months I'd have to didn't seem worth it. Figured I'd deal with the problem.

So its Fender's fault you didn't check your instrument's specs before you bought it? Besides, every USA bass I've ever bought came with a T-wrench. I dunno if they failed to included them back in '99...I'll wait to see if someone can correct me but I believe they did.

It didn't, and your point is mute. A Fender tech guy still gave me wrong information and information that you're now telling me should be general knowlege.

Again...check warranties and return policies. If the issues came up immediately after you bought it, its kinda your responsibility to take them up on their generous policies. "Play" in tuners isn't something all Fender basses have. Either it was something you blew up out of nothing, or the repair guy is an idiot. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt.

Trust me, they all had play in them. I've owned around a hundred basses, and I've only had one other with any play in the tuners. I guess I'll repeat that I did check and attempt to go with the warranty. The only Fender guy in Bklyn. coudn't/wouldn't do anything about it. He in fact showed me a a little drawer he had that had a couple of the same exact tuners which had snapped. He told me they're the new lightweight Fender tuners, and that they suck.

Little metal pieces? The "collars" on the string-thru holes? I'm guessing you put your bass through a drastic change in humidity/temperature that shrunk the wood. That would cause those "collars" to fall out. They don't just randomly fall out one day. Either way, there's an easy way to solve that: put the damn things back in!

They're actually called ferrules, but I figured most people here wouldn't know what I was talking about. Sorry, no temperature changes. No good reason for none of them being glued in and none of them fitting snugly enough to not slip out. Peices don't fall out of or off of any of my other basses either. And uh... they just did randomly fall out. Anytime I changed the strings, and if I didn't put them through the body then I'd have had to either glue them, or take them out. PS. If the wood shrunk they'd have stayed in.

That's because you were jaded from your '99 bass purchase and had pre-conceived notions that made you criticize everything about every Fender bass you will ever buy.

Sorry but that's very far from the truth. The neck had some real severe issues and the bass was unplayable. I really wanted to love that thing. Got it at a ridiculously, I mean RIDICULOUSLY low price from a non musician I worked with.

So you wanted another one after all this...for why? I'm guessing you couldn't get over their true amazing qualities

Because I like to remain open minded even when it's probably best I don't. And because the Fender lovers have a lot of pull and I couldn't help thinking maybe I 'AM' missing something.

Seriously though, these are probably set-up issues and could have been helped by changing the strings too probably.

I'm playing and setting up my own basses for more years than I care to admit. While I didn't check your profile I'll guess probably longer than you're alive. That was NOT an issue and I did use a couple of different string brands. Even swapped the pickups with Dimarzios to try and save it.

And, you didn't even think that probably over the last 34 years the 1-a billion owners that have played it may have treated it like crap? C'mon now. I like how you keep going back to playing Fender though. It's very...strange, especially with your disgust for them.

Oh boy... I know the guy who it belonged to (a drummer) has had it for about 15 years and it just sits in his apartment.


Sounds like you listen to everyone else way too much. I barely ever hear a peep or hate from most Fender owners. Most could give a crap less about other basses, they love theirs too much. They have to defend their basses from people who unfairly stereotype them all, just like they unfairly stereotype all of their basses. You might want to just say you hate Fender because "everyone else likes it".

I think perhaps you might want to turn that whole thing around towards yourself. Fender players love their basses too much to touch other basses. LOL. X2. I swear to you I know several such people who don't want to know anything about other basses, then A/B my stingray with their beloved 'Fenders' and are left without anything to say. They mumble, yeah... that sounds pretty damn good. Only points I'll give you here are that I may listen a bit too much to everyone else. It's why I keep coming back and trying more. Don't flatter your Fenders too much that though, I buy countless basses.


haha...I have the same bass and have played something like 200 "gigs" with it over the last two years and have had little to no problem dealing with the "horrendous" buzz. Granted, it can get a little nasty at times (poorly grounded outlets) but if you aren't standing there in dead silence staring at the wall it really never is an issue.

Thanks for helping prove my point. I guess my standards are just a little higher than yours for a quality instrument. I've played well over 1000 gigs with my other basses, and I never have to deal with any of that. Don't have to cross my fingers that a club will have properly grounded outlets either.

Hey, you bought it. You kept it. Still not sure why you keep buying them though since they're so terrible...

I love my Jaguar. It's just sad to me that I had to go through so many Fenders to find one that I like (I've had others I didn't mention), and I STILL had to make some significant changes to it. And again, I like to remain open minded. And I won't just love a company blindly despite the craploads of evidence that they're not quite what a lot of people make them out to be. Which is one of the major reasons I believe people hate on Fender the way they do.

That was actually fun.