Why so much negativity towards Fender?

[king_biscuit]

In the thousands upon thousands of threads and posts here, hmmm.... how many people complain about quality control at Warwick? Hmmm.... at Ernie Ball? Hmmm.... at Spector? Lakland? Peavey? Modulus? Pedulla? Carvin? G&L? I probably just imagine that I'm seeing so many complaints regarding quality control with Fender. Bad me.

I have had fairly major problems with several of those basses. First, I used to sell G&Ls back in the late 80s, and they tended to have really poor fret work from the factory (the frets were just not level from the factory) -- especially the rosewood boards for some reason -- and we could not always get the necks to pattern out with correct relief (they tended to have a bit of heal lift from the factory). I would actually send my friends done the road to the Fender/EBMM dealer because I thought both were better built. I haven't played a recent American G&L, so I can't comment on the new stuff.

I bought a Carvin 5 string in 91 or 92 that had a severe back bow on the neck. I sent it back to Carvin twice, and they sent it back to me they same way. The third time I told them to keep it and I never considered another Carvin.

I had a Spector 5 around 91 (one of the then new SSD basses). The neck developed a pretty bad forward bow.

I had to send a new EBMM back to the factory to get a new neck because the neck was about 1/4 inch wider at the nut than it should have been -- I can't imagine how that happened, but it did (this was a bass I ordered, btw, so I didn't notice the problem until the bass was already mine). I had another EBMM bass that had a loose A string tuner. I eventually put the tuner in a vice to "tighten" it up. I called EBMM once in the early 90s to inquire about the fact that the G string was softer than the other strings. I spoke to a really nice guy who said they get that all the time, and that he had been telling people to put washers over the g string magnets and that might help.

Now those are REAL problems, my friend! Most of the so-called Fender problems I see are little more than high action and dead strings, but most people can't tell the difference -- there is all of your Fender quality control noise.

 

[Rocker949]

There's an old saying that goes," If you are looking for the bad in things, you'll find them every time".

I try to keep up with such things, and I've never heard of that saying.

 

[Strychnine]

So then, a single pickup honeyburst EBMM is REALLY REALLY overpriced then? According to my research it is more than double the price of a comparable SBMM! Let me say that I don't think the Fender or the EBMMs are overpriced, because it costs more to produce a product in the US than it does in Mexico or Indonesia.

I would think it should be telling us something when a product can be manufactured and shipped to the US at half the cost, with such a minute difference in quality that it is difficult to not attribute it to placebo. Granted, that's well beyond the scope of this discussion, and surely an even more heated topic.

I haven't seen an obvious difference in build quality between a Highway One and a MIA Standard, both of which are made here in the US. I definitely have not noticed the price difference's worth of quality or "feel" improvements between the two. Maybe if I spent a month directly comparing them...

I'm sure the Fender fans will disagree, but I've never had a Fender P or J in my hands that felt like the equivalent of a EBMM or G&L. Maybe it's those extra neck bolts they use, or the fancy bridges.

Personally, I say the same thing that I say about religion. Follow your bliss. If your bliss is a Fender MIA Standard J, then rock it. There's enough selection out there to make anyone happy. My selections and preferences aren't better than yours or anyone else's, just better for me.

 

[Joe Nerve]

People like to rehash what others say. This is a common problem with the internet... lots of people saying things that they "heard", or "read", without any ACTUAL experience.

That said, does it stand to reason that since Fender sells what... conservatively, 500 basses for every Lakland sold...1000 basses for every Modulus.... 1000 for every Carvin.... 100 for every Peavey.... etc.... doesn't it stand to reason that there would LOGICALLY be more complaints simply because of the sheer volume of instruments sold ?

I don't have actual numbers, and can only relate my (pretty vast) experience with repairing and setting up instruments, but my experience tells me that the percentage of Fenders that is "bad" is no better or worse than any of these other brands yo mention. Ask people about G&L neck issues. Common knowledge that they had issues for years, and they WEREN'T just setup issues. Laklands... I love 'em, but people have had some problems...I know some people mentioned them in a thread a couple weeks ago. Modulus... great basses, but it's hard to get any bearings on them due to the low volume sold...I can tell you this though...the Quantum 5 that I used to own was a great bass EXCEPT the EMG 18V preamp died after about 2 months (This was an EMG issue, not a Modulus IMO)

So...what are YOUR experiences with "bad Fenders", or are you just regurgitating things that you read on a message board (that in all likelihood were exaggerated or weren't ever REALLY QC issues).

As I said, my years of working on instruments tells me that Fenders are pretty darn good "quality-wise"...certainly no worse than most of the brands you mentioned.

OK. You win. Fender has great quality control.

 

[OneMoreRobot]

You are entitled to your opinion, but I have to bring this up. I have played many, many Warwicks and very few have been lighter than the average Fender. As far as balancing the weight goes, individual examples may vary, but I will take the balance of any P-bass over a Thumb. There may be other attributes about the Thumb that are preferable to a P-bass, but balance is not one of them IME.

As far as the rest of your post, most of it is talking about asthetic preferences. Everyone is different, but asthetic choice is hardly a reason to "hate" or "bash" any brand. That is why there are a lot of choices on the market. I have played and owned many basses, some bordering on boutique, others more middle of the road. I agree with the previous poster who said "they are tools". When I am looking for P-bass tone, I don't reach for my Cirrus or my Spector. And the reverse is true as well. Fenders do what they do and there really is no substitute, but they obviously don't do everything perfectly. FWIW, I have played quite a few Fender-styled Laklands and G&Ls and found that I, pretty much across the board, prefer the equivalent Fenders. But, it is great to have choices.

I feel what you're saying, but weight isn't a problem for me as long as the body is balanced and small like an EBMM Sterling or a Corvette.

All the things I mentioned are important to me in a bass. I don't hate Fender because of them, I just won't buy their basses because of them. They LOOK sweet and sound good. But I like the way Warwicks feel and sound better. Just meh preference.

 

[Dark Horse]

OK. You win. Fender has great quality control.

No, it's not about "winning", so I'm not sure why you seem to be getting offended (and I hope that you aren't...). I'm simply relating MY experience with all these brands... and asking YOU to do the same. "Experience"... not things that you read.

That's all. You can either be someone who goes through life experiencing things for yourself, or you can be someone who lives vicariously through others. I like to experience things, and I hope that most people prefer to as well.

So as I've asked before, what are YOUR experiences with Fenders that make YOU think that their QC is lacking ?

 

[OneMoreRobot]

People like to rehash what others say. This is a common problem with the internet... lots of people saying things that they "heard", or "read", without any ACTUAL experience.

Crap. I guess I'll never know for sure if Lady Gaga has a penis.

 

[Dark Horse]

Crap. I guess I'll never know for sure if Lady Gaga has a penis.

I never cared to know....

 

[Johnny Alien]

I'm sure the Fender fans will disagree, but I've never had a Fender P or J in my hands that felt like the equivalent of a EBMM or G&L. Maybe it's those extra neck bolts they use, or the fancy bridges.

I like Fender basses although I prefer Lakland. I will say this, I do not understand people saying MM quality is better than Fender. I tried a ton of MM before buying my first Fender and almost every US Fender I have played has been the equal of MM quality wise.

 

[XtheDeadPawn]

Let's see I'll make a list.

1. High prices for shouddy made products
2. Old mindset (Rarely makes basses with 24 frets)
3. Doesn't make new basses only tweaks the same P or Jazz bass body and fits either a Jazz or P bass neck on a P or Jazz Bass body
4. I hate them because of all the above and Fender can suck it!

 

[OneMoreRobot]

Her music is fun to play on synth, but I still refuse to watch the video that my friend tells me exposes her wang.

 

[René_Julien]

I try to keep up with such things, and I've never heard of that saying.

You heard it now.


Well, you read it.

 

[Dark Horse]

Her music is fun to play on synth, but I still refuse to watch the video that my friend tells me exposes her wang.

Yeah... no interest in seeing "the parts". I've got my own that I can look at if I so choose.

 

[Joe Nerve]

No, it's not about "winning", so I'm not sure why you are getting offended. I'm simply relating MY experience with all these brands... and asking YOU to do the same. "Experience"... not things that you read.

That's all. You can either be someone who goes through life experiencing things for yourself, or you can be someone who lives vicariously through others. I like to experience things, and I hope that most people prefer to as well.

So as I've asked before, what are YOUR experiences with Fenders that make YOU think that their QC is lacking ?

I say you win, because you keep calling me out here. And taking uneccessary digs. You claim to have more experience than me - you win.

 

[Dark Horse]

I say you win, because you keep calling me out here. And taking uneccessary digs. You claim to have more experience than me - you win.

I'm not taking ANY digs ... I'm simply asking if you are speaking from personal experience or just relating things that you've heard...nothing more, nothing less.

I also NEVER claimed to "have more experience than you" (or anyone else for that matter). I don't know what your experience is...that's why I keep asking.

BTW....I apologize if you thought I was "taking digs" at you...I wasn't.

 

[rappa29]

Why care about the negativity towards Fender?
Unless you work there or are part of the Fender family (i.e. by bloodline, not by owning a Fender instrument).

Play what you like. Like what you play.

FWIW - 2 of my closest friend bass players don't care for my 08 MIA Jazz. They don't bash it. They've played it, but it doesn't turn them on enough to want to buy one. They prefer their Spector and Stingray. I don't whine to them about why they don't like my Fender!

On the same token I enjoy playing the one's Spector but not enough to buy one of my own.

 

[OneMoreRobot]

Why care about the negativity towards Fender?

Good point. Play what ya like.

 

[Dark Horse]

Good point. Play what ya like.

 

[nicfargo]

I love my Fenders ('08 Hwy One Jazz, '08 MIM Fretless). I also love my modded Squier. After seeing the awesome quality coming out of the Squier camp, I won't dismiss anything anymore due to the name on something.

 

[sloasdaylight]

$1,400 for a MIA Jazz............... 20 frets, bleh pickups, passive
$1,200 for a MIA Precision......... 20 Frets, bleh pickup, passive

$1,400-$1,600 for a MM Stingray. 22 Frets, good pickup(s), active with 2-3 band preamp + possible piezos.
$1,434 for a MM Sterling............. 22 Frets, Good pickup(s), active with 3 band preamp + possible piezos (I think) and a humbucker series/parallel switch.

In my estimation that's why people take issue with fender, or at least why I do, and why I play Music Man basses whenever I get half the chance. It just doesn't make any sense to me to pay the same as I would for a Ray or Sterling for a Jazz or a P. I don't care that much for the passive sound and on top of that I don't like not having a preamp, since I like the increase in tonal possibilities you can get with one.

My two cents.