Why the hate on lower cost amps. Particularly Crate and Behringer?

[Big Hoss]

I've been reading with somewhat keen interest posts about various amps. I personally own a Crate BX-100 100 watt 1x15. While it isn't perfect (It is super heavy for what it is) I see a LOT of hate for Crate and Behringer amps in particular.

In my experience, while limited, I have been observing others as well. My Crate has been through HEAVY (minimum 2 hours / day) use from 2002 - 2007. I stopped / seriously slowed down my playing until recently when certain life events kicked me in the butt to get moving again...

A colleague of mine, and the guy that inspired me to get the Crate in the first place has the BX-100, he bought his new in 2001, and has been rocking it semi pro non stop since. He also has the 450 watt Behringer head with an unknown model Crate cabinet. All of this was picked up if I recall in 2005 or 2006 with again, semi pro use.

LOTS of local bands here can be seen with Crate and Behringer guitar / bass amps, mostly fed out to mixers, and unknown power amps (most of the time) but at least one venue I know of is using Behringer for their entire PA system. No problems...

I was active on another, seemingly now defunct bass forum early on where at least Crate wasn't a dirty word. Actually LOTS of players were running them...

So it would seem from what I see here, that TB members seem to have a bad collective taste in their mouths for both of these brands, and I am sure others...

Is it because there really is that much higher of a failure rate than other brands of equipment? Or is there something else about it?

I am sure I am not the only one to see Ampegs let out the magic smoke on stage. GKs aren't immune either. Countless Fender Rumbles have blown speakers, and power circuits... So why the specifically directed hate toward Crate and Behringer?

I have seen this with other fields of interest too. There seems to be a herd mentality where the costlier item of a given type, let's say Hammers, are somehow magically better because of a brand name put on them. What I am wondering, is there actually any real empirical evidence either proving, or disproving the quality of a given piece of equipment, or is it all about subjective opinion?

The reason I ask is although my Crate has been effective for me for a lot of years, I am giving serious consideration to the Behringer BXL3000A. Yes the added power is an incentive, I won't lie about that, but the added features, particularly output / line level options is a huge draw for me. I can, and do run XLR out of my Crate to my mixer no problem, aside from a cosmetic one. I would rather the jack be in the back so I can route the cable hidden... I know it's a minor thing, but since my studio is also my home office, and my wife tends to spend time in there, I want it to be as uncluttered looking as possible.

 

[Anachronism]

I haven't charted failure rates, nor have I compared sound quality across a lot of Crate and Behringer gear compared to other brands. I'm sure they can be adequate for some situations, but I suspect that very description reveals why they're unpopular here. If the highest praise that can be offered about a brand is that it's adequate, it won't be much of a hit with people who spend a lot of time working on getting great tone. And tone is what you didn't mention in your post. A lot of the criticism of those brands that I've seen while lurking (and recently posting a little) on this forum is about tone, and there seems to be a general opinion among the folks on here that even people on a budget can often do better: with a little more patience the bass player on a budget can snag something with better sound than a Crate. Just my impression.

 

[Dave W]

Use whatever you like, don't worry about what others think of it.

There is a Behringer head sitting on one of their 4X10 cabs at a practice space my band uses. I am not a fan of its tone at all. The head isn't that bad but the cab is terrible.

I've also played through a bunch of Crate stuff ver the years and had a similar experience. I'm just not a fan of either brand at all.

A big reason why there is a lot of hate on Behringer is because they rip off other manufacturers designs and they don't even try to be why about it.

 

[AciDBatH666]

When I started on guitar when I was 15~ish (20 years ago), I had a Crate 2X10 combo and then upgraded to a Crate GX130-C half stack. Crate was awesome for guitar, but it was kind of a budget brand. For a broke college student, I LOVED my Crate gear. But I also was playing thru the clean channel through a Korg G-1 Distortion processor. The high gain channel could never produce the tones I was looking for. Now you look at some of the better heads out there, like the Peavey 5150, the VHT, Marshall, Engl.... Lots of guys plug straight into those heads and call it a day. No effects or outside sources of tone inducing pedals needed.

With bass, sure, I'd buy a Crate combo amp to practice on. But I'd also run my B7K pedal in front of it to make it sound better. On its own, it could never hang with my GK MB800 Fusion, or GK 1001RBii in dry mode. Behringer, I've bought a few pieces of their gear, I just don't find that it gives me ANY of the tones I want.
So for me, those brands are more along the lines of budget gear. I do pawn shop runs monthly, and I see more Crate, Behringer, and Acoustic gear than anything else.
It's like Peavey speakers. They're solid. You can throw them in a lake, let em sit for a year and then go back and grab them and they'll probably still sound the same. But you won't get that awesome sound right out of the box. It's the reason a lot of people come on here and say "This amp isn't sounding like I want and I read I should get XYZ tone out of it!" The first thing people usually ask is what cab they're playing through. Because it matters.

I don't like the tone through those cabs, or heads. It's a personal preference. And I'm probably spoiled on my own sound from my MB800 and Ampeg 810.

 

[jnewmark]

Tried a few Behringer bass heads but didn't really care for them. I use their PA stuff though, passive cabs, and they get the job done.

 

[B-string]

I understand the hostility for Behringer, copying designs and using their own unique yardstick for power ratings. If you need a unit and it fits the bill then who cares what others think. Some people turn their noses at lean hamburger but will gladly eat top sirloin (before it is ground to hamburger).
The Crate brand has been used to produce some very good sounding units and some real garbage, but always IME lacking in build quality.

 

[PokeyPrasch]

I have a Behringer Ultrabass 3000 and a Crate BT350 in my garage.
I run them both through a Crate cab. But I really don't play them anymore and need to sell them. I really liked them when I first got them, I think mostly because they were LOUD and I'm sure my neighbors loved hearing the same bass lines over and over as I was a beginner.

My taste in tone changed as I got better, that being said- You probably shouldn't care what people think, especially strangers on the internet (myself included).

My current rig is a TC Elec BH250 & Matching 410 and a Kustom KBX100 combo that I run at the same time with a Radial Twin City.
There are plenty of people who hate TC Electronic and Kustom and many here probably would tell me my rig sucks.

Who cares as long as they work, don't make you go bankrupt, and produce a sound you like.

 

[toberoo]

Can't speak for everyone, but it's not a failure rate thing. Playing through a crate rig vs another rig, not necessarily a more expensive or 'better' one, is night and day. My rig gives me a tone that makes me smile after every set/jam/practice. It doesn't even come close to a comparison when I use my friend's berhinger amp versus my rig. Crate and behringer tend to sound muffled, boomy, and unlively from my experience. A new crate or berhinger amp that can be used in a band setting is like 300 bucks. I got really lucky in finding used gear, but my rig was 500 bucks. It's an mb500 on an Ampeg 810. I just can't stand the tone I get from those amps, but if you think it sounds good, more power to you.

 

[blindrabbit]

Once upon a time, I had a Crate amp. It sounded alright, I loved the built in chorus, and it was heavy. I then moved on to SWR, which sounded much better, and had better features. Many years later, I sold the SWR to get a Genz Benz, which sounded at least as good as the SWR, and it was far, far lighter. Finally, I sold the GB to get an Aguilar amp, which sounded the best of any amp I've ever owned, and was even lighter still.

Was anything inherently wrong with the Crate I had? No, it was just surpassed by many other amps on many fronts. I wouldn't get one again, but that's only because there are so many other options available that are simply better. I'm not critical at all of guys that have Crate amps, but I may suggest to them that they try out Aguilar...or GB...or even SWR.

 

[B-string]

Price and brand most times have little to do with "sound". Our keyboardist bought a bass rig and I used it for one winter at his place. Tried to find a good sound for 4 months from a MarkBass LM tube 800 and a pair of matching cabs. I will never plug into that frustrating pile of overpriced gear again, but many people find it their dream rig.

 

[Marial]

I'm sure today's Crates are better than they were in the mid-eighties, but my first amp was a Crate B150 combo, with a big 15 in it. It was a pure fartbox at any kind of volume.

 

[Big Hoss]

For what it's worth. Crate got out of the bass amp business a while ago. While I like the tone of my BX100, I also realize I haven't had an opportunity to play through higher cost branded amps at any real volumes (The guys at guitar center don't like it when you shake the displays of guitar strings off their peg hooks...).

It kind of stinks... If I had the $$ I know I could test drive a high end car no problem. Why not high end musical amplification?

 

[callofcthulhu]

If you can't hear the difference between an Ampeg SVT+fridge and your Crate 1x15 combo then don't waste your money on upgrading.

 

[Bill Whitehurst]

The only way they can be so competitivly priced is by cutting corners.
While the sound quality is somewhat subjective,
the reliablity isn't.
No one wants to try to make their living with an unreliable tool,
wheather it's an amp or a power saw that's just asking for trouble.

When one of them does break down (and it will) and you go to repair it
you discover that no one wants to work on it, if you are qualifed to do your own work
the schematics and replacement parts are unavailable and the build qulity is so poor that
the circuit boards will fry if you try to reheat them to change parts.
In short, they are intended to be throw away amps.

 

[mpdd]

i used a crate 115 combo about a month ago at a practice space and we used to used the 450 watt behringer 410 combo at the other space, these amps are fine, but i wouldn't feel comfortable pushing those as hard as i push my mesa tube head and orange cabs

 

[zontar]

I've never owned either, and don't have much experience with Crate amps--but Behringer amps I find to be noisy--same as some of their other products--like pedals.
That is why I haven't bought any Behringer products.

But if they do what you need them to do--then great.

I have a Traynor TBN-10 bass amp
It is a small amp but it does what I need it to do-be a practice amp at home.
It's more than loud enough for that--and it's very portable, which is something I wanted.

I have a larger older Garnet Stencil bass amp--and it sounds great, is quite loud, etc--but it is a pain to move around-even at home, and so the Traynor gets used a lot more, & I might sell the Garnet some day.

 

[B-string]

BTW just for reference sake Crate was owned by SLM/Ampeg and is now LOUD Tech/Ampeg .

 

[shawshank72]

Use whatever you like, don't worry about what others think of it

Exactly!!!
I have played behringer gear on a couple occasions and it did what it was supposed to do.
Crate gear i played alot of in my early years.
Built like a tank and never let me down.
Gear snobs want you to believe expensive is always better when its not, in anything in life.

 

[seamonkey]

SLM Crate is just gone, too bad.

Behringer failure rate is very low %0.1 - much lower than competitors.
They all have 3 year warranties, so yes you an get B* to fix them.
Call their support and ask them.
When they're out of warranty, there are so many of them you can get them fixed.

I don't get the often repeated statement about paying more for a product so you can get it repaired should it ever fail outside of warranty. We should all be wearing crazy expensive wrist watches because you can always get them fixed. Yeah, right.

Still, I wouldn't buy a B* amp as they weight too much. That's just me. I'm guess I'm not part of their amp market. I do own other B* gear and don't have any problems. Same as other brand gear I own.

 

[B-string]

I suspect the "can't be fixed" stigma to start waning soon. If an almost 60 year old can start repairing SMT boards I suspect the 20 and 30 year olds will not be far behind. The equipment to do so has become much more affordable.