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Why the hate on lower cost amps. Particularly Crate and Behringer?

#41
Crate proves to be pretty durable, but every single Behringer product I've bought has blown up within six months of buying it. Not very roadworthy.

However, in terms of economically cheap gear that I think is great, I've always been impressed with Gallien Krueger. If my Mesa rig caught fire and burnt to the ground, I'd probably pick up another GK full stack.
 
#45
Since the word hate was used I can't jump on with full agreement. I don't hate any gear.

I do play what gets out of my way so I can play an undiscovered musical thought. Gear shouldn't limit your expression.

My mates depend on me to be there before the gig providing the notes and influence toward a powerful musical experience.

Peeps buy Ampegs for example, for their sound. They deal with the cost of completely retubing SVTs. Their

reputation isn't about sounding just okay or breaking. It seems B & C have created their own reputation.

There is a difference in quality. You get what you pay for. Honest folk don't blame their circumstance but honor the better gear

and wait, save and buy it when they can.
 
#46
Crate back in the '90's was actually a St. Louis Music brand, same as Ampeg. Crate made something called a BT-350 (if I remember right). I had one briefly and I wrote them for a schematic. They sent me one for the SVT 350 with a note saying it used the same power section. So at least briefly there was a shared heritage. I never thought either of those amps sounded very good, but that Crate model was very giggable and I've seen SVT 350's still in service recently, still sounding "OK". If you could find that Crate model or a few other items from that era, they might be a good deal. My Behringer experience is limited to mixers and they were OK except for a few minor failures (like a dead channel on one club's board) that could happen to almost any mixer.
 
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#47
SlugThrower said:
every single Behringer product I've bought has blown up within six months of buying it. Not very roadworthy.
Click to expand...

You must have bought "Friday Afternoon" built stuff.

I have 3 Behringer pedals on my guitar pedal board, all 3 are used all the time, and after 18 months (the newest) to 3 years (the oldest), they all still work fine.

6F570702-2B47-4F4A-9057-62D707B2BD36_zpsce9e703b.gif


I killed a Boss DS1 Distortion in 4 months, and they are supposed to be a bulletproof pedal...

The Behringers have taken all the abuse I've given them, but they just won't die!

That being said, though, I do look after my gear extremely well, and if any of my gear starts playing up, I either fix it or replace it ASAP.
 
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#48
tjh said:
.. there is a thread currently running on here, where the OP is asking opinions on a rig, where his choice of head is a NEW Behringer amp ... the responses he is getting certainly could be perceived as 'gear snobbery', or even brand 'hate' as stated in this thread ...

I have posted 'an opinion' in that thread, with absolutely not even a hint of 'snobbery' or brand 'hate' ... although it could be perceived as both, my comment is purely economical, and based on both 'wise' and 'less than stellar' purchases over the last 40+ years in this racket ... I will never blast a brand that someone else selects based upon their preferences, but when someone asks for opinions, I sure hate to see them have to go through the same 'mistakes' the I (and others I am aware of) have learned from without at least making them aware of the lesson learned ...

I see absolutely no reason to make a choice to buy a brand new Behringer head in the $150-200 range, when there are a myriad of better quality heads that are available used in that same price range, that have proven themselves over time, are spoken of with high regard in the gear world, and maybe most importantly, will hold the same value as the purchase price .. especially for a young person that almost for sure will be turning the gear over at some point in the not so distant future ... where, if they buy the Behringer new, it will be worth 50-60% of the purchase price the day they drive it off the lot ... now, if they buy that Behringer used at 50% of original, I have less of an issue, but Behringer without warranty might not be the best idea ...

... simply said, some of what my be perceived as brand 'hate' may actually be others simply feeling there are much better bangs available for the same buck ... especially for someone who is not buying because they tried and like the brand, but simply buying because it is the lowest price (new) they can swing ...

JMHO's ...

Edit to ad: ... my only experience with Crate, was using as supplied as backlines ... I have no idea of the models I was given, and accurately or not, I would never consider spending my $$ on a Crate knowing there are equally inexpensive brands that I prefer based on past experiences ... I dont think that is 'hate' or bashing even, just preferences ...
Click to expand...

Just FWiW, I hear you guys and understand the recommendation for a head / cab combination. But unless I win the lottery and can build out a dedicated practice / studio space that I don't have to share with the home office, I can't afford the extra room a decent stack takes... Like I said, a combo amp is a compromise sure, but it is a compromise I more or less need to make.
 
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#50
I wouldn't say we are snobs or are rubbishing Crate, it's just that for me, I've done my time playing 'adequate' basses and amps. 20 years of Peavey amps and no-name basses. Now I can afford better quality,I've moved onto Hartke and MarkBass and a Fender MIA P.

Your Crate has allowed you to play with minimal outlay, not to be sneezed at. However , I've found with most things,the more you spend, the better the qualiy, pure and simple.
 
#51
No "Crate Hate" here. BITD, when I was broker-than-broke, I used a Crate 150watt head into a pair of Black Widow 115 boxes. Not boutique by any means but the rig was loud and dependable. My practice rig currently is a Crate 50w 112 unit. Once again, not fancy but well-suited for it's specific application. FWIW on the guitard side, their tube rigs (Vintage Club Series, V18/50 series, and Blue Voodoo) are killer and untouched at their price points.
 
#52
I have a hard time believing all these 'failures', 'catching fire', 'noisy', 'blew up' and other crazy descriptions with Behringer products as it has not been my experience at all! One band I was in used a PMP6000 powered mixer. Loud, reliable and good sounding. Not a single issue in the 2 years I was in the band. Another guy I know owns a different model powered mixer and he loves it. No problems and I know he's owned it for several years now. A bassist friend own one of the original 300w bass amps. Again, not a single issue and he's still using it to this day. I own a couple B212xl PA cabs. Not a single issue in the 5 years I've owned them. I had a 60w bass combo once that had no issues. I sold it to buy other bass gear since I have quite a few amps already. I've been in studios with Behringer outboard gear. No issues. I've seen plenty of Mackie and Yamaha and other brands products go belly up but no one talks about those brands.
 
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#53
Interesting counter point on the quality thing. From what I have seen Ampeg is the quality / tone gold standard according at least to the bulk of forum posts I have seen...

This following thread makes my point inadvertently...

http://www.talkbass.com/threads/svt-7pro-compared-to-svt-classic.1117452/

I have had 12 + years of great service from the old Crate, admittedly with 7 of them more off than on, but I have never had a problem with it letting the Magic smoke out. The good thing is the neighbors on one side of me stay at their other house (Recently married, moved into her house, haven't sold his yet...) and the neighbor on the other side hasn't quite grasped the suburban middle class concept yet, and frequently throws Fiestas that wil make your hair curl. So jsut to tickle my own fancy, I figured I'd start turning knobs up...

With both volume knobs on the SR500 (P an J active pickups) and tone turned down so no real highs or mids, turn the gain up till it clips, and feather back until it stops. Then jam the main all the way to the right...

I should have used hearing protection, BUT, it WAS plenty loud, with no distortion, playing with the tone knobs on the pickups resulted in a nice variety of sounds, and I was quickly able to dial in just "That" tone that I am looking for, no "farty" tone, nice and clean. Could be punchier, but I realize that I am flapping around a 15" speaker, not multiple 10s...

The EQ on the amp still works every bit as good as it did 12 years ago, so no complaints there...

When I got this amp, I found that the majority of the forum chatter surrounding Crate bass amps was overwhelingly positive.

I guess fashion in amplification changes with time.
 
#55
Crate was one of those brands that seemed to make better inroads among guitarists than bassists. I try not to badmouth gear because there's something out there for everybody. It all has a place. I once owned a Crate practice amp that was perfect for low volume woodshedding. Not tonally versatile and certainly not gig worthy, but it served its purpose. I tried a 100W unit once just on a whim and found the tone to be lacking in definition no matter how I tweaked it; then again, that probably had as much to do with the player as the amp. I love mid-heavy tone, I'm a finger player and a J-bass junkie. None of these attributes make me the optimum Crate critic.

That said, I'll just go on a quick tangent and say that every so often you can find "economy" gear that's musically fulfilling to the exclusion of the bigger names. I recently discovered that I can make a 200W Acoustic combo sound better in a small gig setting than my GK ever has. Don't get me wrong - I adore GK and my main rig is going nowhere, but for smaller rooms and jams, I'll be gigging that little Acoustic for the rest of forever. Very unlikely magic, but it is what it is and I'm not going to waste time questioning it. And, honestly, there's not typically a lot of love for [modern] Acoustic products, either.

If the shoe fits, wear it.
 
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#57
TomB said:
Crate back in the '90's was actually a St. Louis Music brand, same as Ampeg. Crate made something called a BT-350 (if I remember right). I had one briefly and I wrote them for a schematic. They sent me one for the SVT 350 with a note saying it used the same power section. So at least briefly there was a shared heritage. I never thought either of those amps sounded very good, but that Crate model was very giggable and I've seen SVT 350's still in service recently, still sounding "OK". If you could find that Crate model or a few other items from that era, they might be a good deal. My Behringer experience is limited to mixers and they were OK except for a few minor failures (like a dead channel on one club's board) that could happen to almost any mixer.
Click to expand...
Yes the B350(or whatever it was called) was a bad mother f er. It had a graphic eq but if u bypassed it, that thing would growl. Loved pushing the 8/10 s by crate with it. It was heavy, which made it perfect for heavy music, but it could also do modern quite well. I don't miss moving it, but I sure wish I had kept it
 
#59
Part of it is principle for a lot of guys. When I can buy made in America gear I do, but all the behringer and crate stuff Ive encountered has been cheap and unreliable. You can get good stuff from them the same way you can get a great squier bass, but when I can spring the money I get something I know will work.
Also I LOVE my swr amps and cabs. Its the tone that works magic for me :) do your thing man and don't let other people tell you you're wrong if you are happy with your tone. There's hate for every brand ever made, some guys hate fender, some hate ampeg, some hate crate and behringer, but we all have something someone hates on!
 
#60
I think a lot of people are affected by price point in that, if it sells cheap, it's cheap, so don't buy it.
Not everyone, but some people for sure.

Also, it's a matter of standards. Some people have higher standards than others. I still go back to my first
point though, where some people's standards are likely affected by price point. This applies to amps, basses,
cars, clothes, tools, etc.

Due to necessity, I currently own and use low priced equipment (I have owned higher priced equipment in the past).
I gig with a Behringer amp, an old Aria 1x15 cab,and my steady gigging bass is a Carlo Robelli. I can't begin to tell you how many frowns, grimaces, rolling of the eyes,
snide remarks and/or more likely, just being ignored when I chime in with my opinion on equipment I've gotten when
people find out about my gear. They may have never played or used any of this equipment, but they will immediately
assume it sucks because of the price point. They couldn't be any more wrong.

However, I do have to agree that mostly lower priced items are made with lower priced components and/or with less
attention to fit and finish. So as you can not assume that all low cost equipment is bad, you also can not assume it is good.

When I bought my Behringer head, the rep at Thomann was quite clear when I asked him "Why is it so cheap??". He said
"Because it's made with the cheapest components they can find". I appreciated his honesty and decided to buy it anyway.
So far, I've had it for almost 2 years, gig with it twice a week and love the sound I get out of it. It does exactly what I need
it to do. Will it last as long as a higher priced rig? I don't know, but I'm sure I'll find out.
 
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